Summary
Social media influencers are fuelling a rise in misogyny and sexism in the UK’s classrooms, according to teachers.
More than 5,800 teachers were polled… and nearly three in five (59%) said they believe social media use has contributed to a deterioration in pupils’ behaviour.
One teacher said she’d had 10-year-old boys “refuse to speak to [her]…because [she is] a woman”. Another said “the Andrew Tate phenomena had a huge impact on how [pupils] interacted with females and males they did not see as ‘masculine’”.
“There is an urgent need for concerted action… to safeguard all children and young people from the dangerous influence of far-right populists and extremists.”
Every teacher I hear from (US) these days basically says the newest generation coming up is completely screwed. Unreal levels of behavioral issues that are not being addressed at home. Complete lack of engagement with the lesson plan, unfinished assignments all over. They need to curve grades left and right just to get the majority of the class to pass. The parents are more emboldened than ever to make the teachers’ lives hell over things they know nothing about and refuse to take responsibility for.
It’s easy to brush it off as the standard generational nose-thumbing…but this seems different. Something is really breaking down and I think social media is at the center of it.
It’s a shame teachers are pressured to “curve grade” rather than just flunk these people and hold them back a grade.
Even when I went to elementary school over 15 years ago in Canada, kids weren’t allowed to be held back without written permission from their parents. I thought it was really fucking weird because we literally had a kid whose mom did all of his homework (everyone knew; he had horrible writing and she didn’t) and yet refused to put him in a remedial class or have him repeat a year.
I knew a kid like that in school, who’s mother did all his homework and projects for him, he couldn’t even spell “phone”. He was a rich kid who would miss half the school year going on family trips, never took the SAT’s, never went to university. He’s now an executive at JP Morgan (wish I was joking.)
I can’t help but wonder what Dad’s take on this situation was.
That assumes there was one (dad, or take from the dad).
Schools now lose funding when kids don’t pass, so admins press teachers to move them along.
All Kids Left Behind
All Kids Shuffled Off To Become Someone Else’s Problem
“When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law
Or, if you prefer a clip from The Wire, juking the stats.
Republicans really do destroy everything
This is true for nearly every state, from deep red to deep blue. It is not a party issue but a stupid policy that intended for teachers and faculty to work harder to teach students.
It’s from a federal law passed under the Bush administration, tying funding to standardized testing scores.
But it was bipartisan, so you’re not wrong.
The ironic tragedy here is that the new MAGA GOP is going to destroy and dismantle public education, citing the “failure” of public education to meet the needs of our children, even though it was a Republican policy that crippled the system in the first place.
Murica’
Many if not all school districts in the States have their funding tied to their performance, so there is a negative incentive to make grades look good. My elementary school tried to place me in their Special Ed program because my grades would have brought the average up there.
Plus, holding back 60, 70, 80% of an entire class just isn’t logistically feasible in most cases.
Neither is passing a kid who doesn’t understand the material.
It is when that kid becomes someone else’s problem to deal with.
Its so absurd.
I went to a rural title one highschool. I took general level classes and had honors/high honors at least half of my semesters.
Half way through my senior year, I moved. It sucked balls. My new school, was small, literally the smallest school in my state. Graduation class size was 54 students. It was outside the Capital city, and affluent. Everyone was a “prep” had money, some drove very fancy cars to school ect.
The new school didnt offer Gen level classes, only college and AP. I was upset at that because those classes were known to me to be super difficult at my old rural school. At that time I just wanted to smoke pot with my friends tbh. But … I took the classes.
Y’all. This little rich prep school’s College course classes were easier than my Title one school Gen Ed. I couldn’t believe it. This was 2006, and I know now, they did that to keep the funding going. All the little rich kids had parents who could afford to send them all to college, and they needed to look good for thier hard-to-get-into universities.
It still frustrates me the world is like this.
I believe it. I think the much older push against standardized tests was so that “fancy” schools could pump up their grades. I never understood the newer push against standardized tests, you want them exactly so schools can’t pump up their grades. Standardized tests create an actual level playing field.
The recent push came from Covid when many people could not take the tests, and then it stuck around after since administrators wanted to focus on your “well-roundedness” and not high test scores.
The newer push was years before covid.
Something is really breaking down and I think social media is at the center of it.
I feel like you could apply this to almost every societal crisis we’re facing. It’s like social media took every little crack in the foundation and turned it into a chasm.
Parents in Facebook echo chambers trying to discover who to blame for their child’s shitty behaviour then getting into arguments when they are told to perhaps get off their phone and speak to their child.
Children in Facebook echo chambers where they make their neurodivergence their entire personality while simultaneously excusing any and all behaviour due to it.
If both groups spoke to each other a lot could be changed.
It is different, because never in human history has it been easier to influence people. We are literally addicted, as in the brain is literally addicted, to our little disinformation device, the output of which is largely controlled by malicious powerful entities. Now add impressionable young brains to the mix.
It is a pretty terrible scenario with no obvious solution.
I retired from the job 5 years ago. Your description rings true from my experience then (and was a big part of me retiring), and the colleagues I’ve stayed in touch with say it’s very noticeably worse now. I’m glad I got out when I did.
From your experience, why do you think that is? Mostly social media? If so, what about it? Bad parenting? The whole Covid remote stuff? Is it economically driven? Are the schools doing anything differently that could cause it?
I would love to pin it on one thing, like social media. While I felt, feel, like that was a big variable in the downfall, I can’t underestimate the loss of the “American Dream”. I felt like phones should be banned. But some teachers felt like phones could be integrated into the curriculum. I could see both points, but honestly I just felt like society had passed me by. One of my master teachers, when I had been student teaching 25 years previously, said it was time to go when the students no longer entertained you. I felt like that was about right. I don’t think knowledge at your fingertips is a reason not to actually learn stuff.
Thanks for sharing that. Like any job, when it’s no longer fun, it’s time for a change.
Covid really fucked them in not getting normal socialization at school and put a lot of kids behind by a couple of years accedemically. Right now 4/5th grade and up are really screwed. Plus parents just aren’t engaged.
Covid really fucked them in not getting normal socialization at school
Don’t worry, they will be bullied throughout their life. Missing a couple years of bullying won’t hurt.
Throw into that mix all the parents who think home schooling is best. Sure, for a select few it’s going to be better, but the majority are going to struggle in later life.
What usually happens is a parent gets reported to social services for child abuse. Then they go to facebook ranting about how bad the school is and that they’re being targeted. Then they pull their kids out of school to “homeschool” so they can continue to abuse their kids.
Those kids are the next generations parents. What are their kids going to be like?
Wage slaves who pay rent to landlords
Luckily, they probably won’t have any.
I am, not great at parenting, I’ve made hella mistakes. I’ve only one son and do my best.
The number of teachers/therapists (my son works a few programs for his needs) that have been floored by my willingness to parent and hold my son accountable for his actions, is far too high.
While I’ll take the compliment being “a breath of fresh air” (an actual compliment from a therapist) it bothers me more parents cant take thier own faults to accountability nor hold their children to any standard of conduct really saddens me. I shouldn’t be a wildflower in a field of dirt, it should be a field of flowers damn. A silly metaphor but you get my point hopefully.
I am, not great at parenting, I’ve made hella mistakes. I’ve only one son and do my best.
It sounds like you are
The problem with you being the rare parent to hold their child accountable is that your kid is just going to see it as you being unfair to them. Their peers are going to laugh at them.
A lot of their peers legitimately don’t need to worry about being a responsible adult. They will inherit enough wealth to never have to work a day in their life.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. “Their peers are going to laugh at them”? “Unfair”?
These are your excuses to not teach accountability? Not only are you wrong in that these are not my child’s viewpoints or reality, you sound pretty young yourself. All of his peers need to worry about being a responsible adults, regardless of future incomes.
I don’t care what the other children are doing, I only care what my child is doing.
Would you jump off a bridge (to your death) if all your friends were? Thats fair right? Lol
Thanks for the laugh
Calm down. I never excused anything.
I just said what would happen to highlight what a difficult task it is.
It’s mass narcissism and it’s going to destroy our society.
If I don’t see signs of change soon, I’m getting tf out of here.
This is it. We’re a Narcissistic culture, and it’s getting worse.
The problem is consumerism.
Narcissism is just a symptom of our insecurity.
lol, and here’s me thinking I’ll get to finally loosen these bootstraps one day. Wouldn’t be Millennial difficulty if something nice happened for once, so why should I expect reprieve in retirement age? Probably just be anxious af anyway because not being abused by another generation seems too good to be true.
No joke. We went from getting yelled at by old people for problems they caused, to being called old and getting shoved aside by the generation ahead of us, really freaking fast.
I feel like we’ve already been forgotten after we were robbed of opportunity and respect at every turn.
I try to focus my energy towards the good ones. There’s still good people out there. I’ve met many kids that would put the majority of adults to shame with their level of intelligence, maturity, and respect. The odds are so against them though.
Those damn machines, impacting the youth!
Those damn newspapers, impacting the youth!
Those damn radios, impacting the youth!
Those damn TVs, impacting the youth!
Those damn internet connected computers, impacting the youth!
Those damn smartphones, impacting the youth!
Those damn AI models, impacting the youth!
Our youth now love luxury, they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders, and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants not servants of their household. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.
I feel like literally every generation for the last 1000+ years probably had a similar sentiment
You’d be off by 1500 years, that was Socrates.
Considering 2500 years ago is more than 1000 years ago, I’ll assume you mean 500 years in the future.
(Also if that’s an actual Socrates quote that’s hilarious)
That was Socrates circa 500-ish BC, 2500 years ago or so.
Thousands of years of this stuff.
I’m probably just another old idiot who can’t see things for what they really are, but social media does scare the hell out of me. It’s hard to imagine it being a good thing when personalities are shaped by algorithms that exist entirely to drive engagement so a company makes a buck.
It isn’t just rich chocolaty ovaltine. The kid isn’t being brainwashed to drink a sugary drink from time to time. The kid is a constant revenue stream.
They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
Uh…
We really have reached a whole new level of impression.
its all about who controls that stuff
Nooo, kids were like that form the ancient times /s.
So this teacher had nothing bad to say about the teaching or the education system? It’s just bad kids and their bad parents, right? How convenient for teachers.
In reality these schools are indoctrination camps on the school-to-prison pipeline. We live in a fascist society that’s literally destroying the planet. Schools are a fundamental part of this process.
TBH kids shouldn’t listen to their teachers and schools. That’s what got us here.
Seems like teachers and schools aren’t properly equipped for modern kids.
Welcome to post-scarcity.
Honestly, I wish I realized it more as a kid. There’s not really a reason to pay attention to shit we don’t care about because there’s some autist out there who is going to enjoy doing it and do it better. We can just apply their solutions and move on with our lives. It’s not like they will even care. They’re too busy doing other things.
Bless the next generation for fighting back against our tunnel vision.
Probably going to get slated for this but surely at some point we need to accept our being all nice and friendly all the time just doesn’t work.
Like if kids are this bad send them off to military school for a month till they shape up. Happens again 6 months, then 12. Government mandated, parents don’t like it, they can look after their kids better.
People are absolute shits and don’t give a fuck about others or their future. No amount of “please pay attention or you won’t understand algebra and won’t get a good job” will do anything, you will just get “Why do i need to learn algebra! I’ll never use that. John just told me to shut up, what am I meant to do? Just let him disrespect me like that. You should be talking to John!”
Fuck them. Make them do press ups in the rain see if they learn to shut up then.
How many Gomer Pyles will that produce?
Maybe less than all the murderers we have now. Being straightened out by the military is a well known phenomenon. We can’t keep doing the same things when trends are showing they aren’t working, then expect them to work better. Something needs to be changed.
I actually agree with you. There used to be real consequences for bad behavior and being lazy, and now you get told that it’s not really your fault. Zero concept of personal responsibility. Now society is an epidemic of mass narcissism and selfishness. It clearly isn’t sustainable. There are going to be severe consequences for our quality of life in the future, and that’s assuming society even survives this epidemic at all.
He should meet a Luigi.
The problem isn’t that we need to get rid of Tate. They are like flies and there will always be more like him.
What we need to figure out is what made him so persuasive to young boys - that’s the real problem. We need to know why young boys are willing to listen to bullshit like his, and we must figure out what we can do to correct that.
No positive father figure in their lives. No sense of community. Stigma from male role models that want to step up but fear being branded a PDF.
I honestly don’t have a strong sense of how Tate can be so popular. But if I had to guess, I’d say the “no sense of community” is probably the biggest thing.
The internet has become a gathering place where communities and social bonds are formed. I can imagine a heap of people who are struggling socially in the real world seeing, and then seeing Tate and his community offer an ‘answer’ to that - supporting those who feel rejected, and putting the blame squarely on others. That’s what I see as the draw that brings people in. They feel safe and secure in their haven of hatred. Any opposition to them is from people that are weaker and less important. – Which then makes leaving the group almost impossible, because you’d have to degrade your own view of yourself - joining the people who you think are weaker and less important.
So this Tate thing is rot that has taken root because of a gap in more healthy support structures. (I don’t see an easy solution for it though!)
A big part of this is the shallow takes on feminism that are so pervasive.
And to be clear, it’s not feminism itself that is the problem. It’s the complete lack of nuance we have when discussing topics as a society. The idiots outnumber the thoughtful people, and when an idea becomes mainstream, the dumbest possible take is the loudest and the easiest to spread. So actual feminism got out-yelled by idiots taking the idea to the most illogical extreme.
And that leads to light misandry. And even if it is light, it’s so pervasive that young boys now feel like they’re being overlooked and ignored, demonized and generalized with the worst men have to offer.
And again, I have to stress, that this isn’t because of feminism, it’s because of the lack of nuance surrounding all discussion, but in this case, the discussion around men/feminist issues. It’s much easier to spread “all men are garbage” than it is to spread “women have historically faced complex issues that, together, are a societal stumbling block resulting in less favor in everyday life and a harder, more complicated existence.”
And when this is the case, men like these assholes step in to tell boys, “fuck women, you are a king and you deserve everything.” And what little boy isn’t going to be empowered by that? We need to have space for men in modern society that is supportive and open, because right now the only “support for young men” comes from assholes trying to capitalize on the complicated feelings of suddenly feeling like they’re being unfairly overlooked.
Now, that also has to take into account that if the boys are ever overlooked, it’s because there have been centuries of unequal treatment for women, and that has to start to be righted somewhere. And it’s only been in the last, like, 30-50 years. And in all that time, we haven’t taken the high road to equality, we’ve taken the easy road hyperbole and simplistic solutions, which doesn’t solve the existing problem, it just gives us new ones—like this exact problem we’re dealing with now.
Thanks for writing out your thoughts like this. I try to make this point again and again in different settings but it often does not illicit a thoughtful response.
What we need to figure out is what made him so persuasive to young boys
Why is this a mystery to people? Everything is falling apart and most adults are in denial about it, kids are going to follow people like this because they sense the nihilism of the moment that their parent’s can’t handle confronting.
We do need to get rid of Andrew Tate though I will settle for him going back to jail, but his popularity isn’t a mystery. There is a very clear pipeline to make money as a conservative influencer, this is then ultimately an issue of money being poured into manipulating children.
We only talk about the absolute worst men. We have raised them to think that the right is the party for them because otherwise they are being told over and over that they are dangerous predators and nothing more.
You can do both
Because all we hear about men from the left is that women would rather be with bears, and that men are useless. And that they are oppressing everyone with their privilege.
You tell some poor white kid he’s privileged, he’s not going to be your friend or sympathetic to your causes.
I don’t think messaging from the left has really done anything to win them over. It’s not necessarily that Andrew Tate is telling them anything amazing. He’s just a voice not blaming them for everything.
This is really it.
It’s not even a left vs. right debate at this point. It’s a problem with human psychology where we can’t accept a modest approach to anything. Everything has to be blown out of proportion and distorted to the point it’s not even representative of reality.
Either people are 100% with you, or they’re 100% against you.
I blame reddit and forums like these, honestly, for playing a big role in creating this divide.
It’s a problem with human psychology where we can’t accept a modest approach to anything.
This is nonsense, the rightwing has clearly evolved this way but provide evidence the leftwing has or stop repeating this narrative of “both sides”.
Y’all will “both sides” everything right up until a conservative yells a slur at you and kicks you out the door as you get deported to a brutal prison in an authoritarian country because conservatives decided you weren’t worthy of basic human rights.
Then again maybe you will still sit in your cell shaking your head saying to yourself “damn, both sides got so extreme” .
edit how about you provide some evidence instead of just downvoting like an intellectual coward?
You. You call your own allies intellectual cowards. You’re part of the reason the left drives it’s own support away.
The only people driving people away right now are centrists… which is why those of us on the left are so worried.
Maybe it’s because all we hear from your type is how immigrants are the root of all problems, “all lives matter” and junk like that.
What a great example of what they were talking about!
What’s my type? You couldn’t have made my point for me any harder than you just did. You just irrationally lashed out at an ally.
“There are too many assholes in the world because people let them get away with it.” - Mr Inbetween
I truly thought that this Tate guy was a complete character like Borat. I’m floored realizing this is a real “person”? How does anyone care about helping this guy. Oh wait.
Parents need to raise their children and stop letting social media do it.
Andrew Tate should just put on the Taliban turban and be done with this charade. His entire schtick is Sharia for Americans.
He already converted to Islam
Tho he seemed to be mixing up Islam with just the Najdi culture.
can you blame boys for aspiring to this
Some of you need more empathy. These are children whose insecurities are being exploited for profit. Be mad at their parents, and be mad at figures like Andrew Tate. But these are children and they deserve more grace than that.
Fine, just fail them. This is a problem for the parents to address. And if the parents refuse, then they can enjoy having a child who lives off of benefits and aspires to be an “influencer”. Lol.
Those little shits should be slapped by their mom’s when they get home from school. Suburban trash.
In 10 years, it seems we not only gave up our own nations’ dreams of equality and union, but lustfully decided to lick the boots of those telling us our dreams aren’t worth having. It doesn’t help that the self-proclaimed “leader of the free world” is a known rapist who cuts deals with the Taliban at the expense of women’s liberties.
When I worked in a middle school a couple years back, I heard the Tate shit there. Had a student who would name their Kahoot something like “[female students name] has a nice ass” and administration would refuse to allow me to impose consequences.
If you are around teen boys, please talk to them about Tate. He’s not someone who should be walking free, and he’s not someone children should be listening to.
I’ve already raised 3 wonderful & respectful children into mostly functional men, but if I had ever gotten a call like that, the child in question wouldn’t have had a phone or seen another webpage until after they moved out as an adult.
Alternate idea: it’s not my job to raise someone else’s kids.
If youre a teacher you need to quit. Now.
No it isnt our job to raise someone else’s kids but it is our job to educate them. Not just on curriculum. Teaching isnt just shoving curriculum down students’ throats, calling it a day, and getting your summer vacation.
Our job is to help students succeed as people. The curriculum is one small part of that. Being a role model and teaching kids how to be better people is a part of that. If you didnt sign up for that, find another job.
The world is full of shit teachers and I cannot stand teachers who dont take this job seriously enough to understand the responsibility it comes with. Do better or find different work. For your sake and the sake of your students.
Plus safeguarding is a really important part of teaching. These children need to be protected from this, for the sake of them and other kids they have contact with
This shitheaded take is how we ended up with the failing society that we have
No, unchecked consumerism is how we ended up with the society we have.
Andrew tate keeps getting rewarded with sex because he has money. He has no reason to change and never will until the pussy faucet gets turned off.
Maybe he wouldn’t be such a ‘role model’ if he had a harder time getting laid. Not sure what we can do about that, though.
Maybe he wouldn’t be such a ‘role model’ if he had a harder time getting laid. Not sure what we can do about that, though
Andrew Tate is a rapist, what we did about it was put him in jail, and then we put conservative rapists in power who find solidarity with Andrew Tate, this isn’t rocket science how we got here.
“Sex is for making children. Any man who has sex with women because it ‘feels good’ is gay. Oh my pee pee feels good this is great!”
Why any teenage boy would hear that and not unsubscribe is beyond me. They are the other way round. They don’t want children, they just want sex with women. That’s normal for a heterosexual teenage boy.
Weird, looks like tate himself doesn’t only have sex for children.
Seems like your cherrypicking is just that, cherrypicking.
Literally his own words. About his only words that got to my feeds. I keep my feeds clear as I can of Nazi/MAGA/misogyny/toxic stuff.
Sure, but the children are people; they do not have the experience of wisdom to make choices and rely on adults to teach them wisdom from their experience.
It’s not your job, but those kids are the ones paying for their parents’ value system, and so the adults teaching them aren’t teaching them well. Children are people, and are being let down. Theyre not kitset projects for parents.
One day those people will be expected to make their own choices, and the only foundation they’ll have to decide with is what they’re taught now. It’s not your job, but it’s everybody’s civic responsibility to contribute to a healthier collective society, and children are a part of that.
part of being an adult is doing the work in front of you that needs doing, regardless of "ought"s "supposed to"s
we all benefit from the next generation learning to treat others properly, regardless of our own parental status
If a psychopath has an influence over children in their formative years, it is your absolute responsibility to educate the kid and the parents.
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Yeah, as a trans person around children, I do awful things like use my influence to encourage children to spend more time taking walks in nature and teach young boys that girls are humans too.
Truly equivalent to the influence of Andrew Tate.
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It’s not your job. It is rewarding in and of itself though.
The great part about Boys and Girls Clubs or being a CASA or face painting at a festival etc is that you don’t have to raise them. The undivided attention of adult who seems to genuinely like and care about them for like 15 minutes is the kind of shit that changes kids lives.
I’m not saying “organize community talks at your local library about positive masculinity” or “become a Big” but - maybe a cousin says something shitty at dinner, and you bring it up gently in a chat? Or be a positive role model in spaces where you encounter young men: in video games, on forums, outside…
The best way to create a society where men are allowed to cry and express their emotions is to teach boys and young men these things are okay.
think again. do you want someone else’s kids to grow up to be misogynists who will vote?
Actually when you live in a democracy it is. Or at least, if you don’t you still get the consequences when these kids start voting.
Well the solution to that one 10 year old is pretty clear. Actions have consequences, if he wants to be a little shit he can repeat the grade next year after hard failing this one.
Just proves he attracts the immature mind
I think about just how many shitty fathers these kids have, most of them in the maga cult that are lapping up the likes of Carlson and Peterson’s lessons on red pilled bullshit and condoning the behavior of their kids (albeit from a notably absent distance).
