“But most significantly, Microsoft has made Recall a feature you must opt in to using rather than opt out of using, and it’s possible to remove it completely.”
Important bit
“Whoopsie, we turned it on for everyone by accident after an update! We made a fucky wucky!”
“Whoopsie, turns out we lied and recall was enabled from the start and just pretended to be off” 😄🤷♂️
“we noticed you uninstall Recall. Probably just an accident. We reinstalled it in an unremovable way and enabled it for you. You’re welcome!”
Edit: autocorrect
😎 Me having set only security updates in my windows, after it tried to install the 24H2 update.
They will claim it’s security based
If they want to pay 2-3 Billions to EU for breaking laws, let them. I will also make so money suing them.
Didn’t they require one of these bigger upgrades to still get security updates? I thought I read something about 23H2 (or similar) not getting updates anymore.
Yeah, 23H2 has updates until November. Pretty funny if you think Windows 10 22H2 ends in October.
only until they find out most people never enable it. Then it will be forced on
Yeah, this is just the thin end of the wedge.
Although I suppose you could call windows itself the thin end of the wedge, this is a slightly wider part.
For now, anyway. Let’s hope it stays that way.
Most MS controversial features go through “opt in -> opt out -> mandatory” pipeline examples are Telemetry, Windows Live account, Spotlight (ui ads), etc.
This is good. There are probably some edge cases for this. I work in IT for some companies using industrial automation. Being able to roll back and watch what people do when errors or problems occur is a good feature. Similarly on high value servers I would like this as well.
Being able to turn it on is better than having to apply policies to disable. I don’t see this as a big problem anymore.
I’m not sure if you understood the comment you responded to…
Good! In my opinion this entirely changes the feature to acceptable.
They will eventually change the default to “on.”
opt in for now.
It’s a pretty bold move to advertise the inclusion of a key logger in your OS.
Not just keylogger. It’s a screenlogger too.
Ardamax Keylogger takes screenshots too, should they change the name?
Youd already be using Linux Mint or Ubuntu if you cared about not being data mined.
get linux if you haven’t already
if you don’t know how, ask, Lemmy is covered in Linux users
I’m building a new gaming PC and it’s going to be a Linux build and if it doesn’t work the way you guys keep insisting it will, I swear to God.
My last experience with Linux was with Ubuntu about 10 years ago and I can’t say it was a particularly great experience I’m hoping that in the last decade it’s improved its user experience.
I’m not a Linux hater (believe it or not), but I’m definitely not an evangelist either, and I think this eternal praise for Linux is just not warranted.
If you want things to “just work” in any capacity, then you’re in for a bad time.
Personally, I don’t want Windows 11 on my next PC, but I don’t have the time or the desire to get into the troubleshooting hell that unfortunately is Linux either.
People say that anything is possible on Linux, but at the same time roast you for even thinking that it’s not gonna take enormous amounts of un-learning and self education when coming from Windows.
Linux fanboys who don’t see it’s faults can be sort of toxic.
I don’t doubt that I’ll get downvoted for this, but I think there need so be more differing opinions on Linux on here.
Linux users to Windows users with a question: “you can solve that by switching to Linux”
Linux users to that same user when they switch to Linux and have a question: “why the fuck do you wanna do that? Go back to Windows.”
why the fuck do you wanna do that? Go back to Windows.
Yeah that is basically my concern. However I figure I can always just buy a Windows licence if it doesn’t work out.
I can always just buy a Windows licence
Or use massgrave.dev and get it for free.
If you want things to “just work” in any capacity, then you’re in for a bad time.
Most things do. Not everything obviously, but that’s true for Windows and everything else too. Technology is complex.
People say that anything is possible on Linux, but at the same time roast you for even thinking that it’s not gonna take enormous amounts of un-learning and self education when coming from Windows.
You see, this is the issue. Of course it’s going to behave differently. It’s an entirely different system. The issues come when people switch to Linux and expect Windows still. It isn’t Windows. You have to be ready and willing to learn how Linux works, and willing to adapt to what it does differently. For example, on Windows most applications check for updates when they launch and you have to go to a website to get them. On Linux, once a package is installed, your package manager handles all updates for you and you never have to worry about it again, besides just telling the package manager to update occasionally.
Linux fanboys who don’t see it’s faults can be sort of toxic.
Obviously it has faults. I don’t know anyone who says otherwise. Windows users who ignore that they’ve just gotten used to all of Window’s faults are horrible though. I spent a long time learning to avoid or fix the faults of Windows, and I stopped seeing them because that’s just the way things were. Once I switched to Linux and don’t have to deal with them anymore, they become clear. It’s not a user friendly OS. Users just got used to it because they had to. They can also get used to Linux of they want too, for free and without a company harvesting their data or trying to push stuff on them.
I’m migrating to Linux Mint, 99% of steam games work as well as on windows. Those who don’t are mostly multiplayer games that insist to have some shitty kernel anticheat.
I’ll still keep windows on dual boot when I need it, though.
Shit , I just installed oblivion reboot and worked on day 1 without issues in popOS.
Gaming is such a nonissue on Linux now
It’s a non issue for most games, which is great but every now and then there’s a game that’s too tightly integrated into windows (like phasmophobia and it using the cortan API of all things for voice chat) or one that relies on an incompatible anti cheat system.
The Linux community need to figure out a new friendly standard to ensure anti cheat without out needing to act like a backdoor to the root kernel. I wish I was smart enough to help with that sort of stuff.
The Linux community need to figure out a new friendly standard to ensure anti cheat without out needing to act like a backdoor to the root kernel.
I think Valve and Arch are working on that with their collab on the secure signing enclave.
I’d have to disagree that it’s a non issue it’s definitely improved, but I still come across little irritations that pop up on Linux but not Windows games.
Well no Helldivers if I go that route
Gold rating on protondb
https://www.protondb.com/app/553850Helldivers works fine on Linux, I play it from time to time.
Usually it works but, every once and a while they have an update that breaks shit but they usually fix it pretty quickly.
Maybe too late, but,no tux, no bux.
What’s that mean
There are more games than you could ever play in a lifetime that now support Tux, the Linux mascot. I won’t purchase a game that I can’t play on Linux. If that means I miss out on a few AAA games I’m ok with that.
This person fucks hard
I appreciate the attitude big time
Unfortunately brand new hardware has issues more often than not. I had to get a beta build just to get wifi to work on one system I built.
I was in a similar boat and have found modern Linux to be somewhere between Windows XP and Windows 10 in terms of convenience and having it “just work”. However, I reckon I’ve spent less time troubleshooting than I would spend raging at the bullshit Microsoft keeps trying to shove down your throat in Windows. On balance I’m counting it as a win, and I suspect you will too.
Please update this if you fun into the usual brick wall of hand modifying config files or self-compiling some obscure git pull just to make basic things like audio and network work.
If you’re going that far, you’ve taken a wrong turn somewhere. Please ask for help before digging into compiling stuff, unless that’s what you’re into, there’s probably a simpler solution.
It sounds like the version they were using didn’t have the right drivers in the build. Seems a lot of work to go to just to get new drivers.
If the source is available somewhere, but it’s not in your distro’s repos, there’s probably a good reason for that. Ideally just get better hardware. A WiFi chip is usually something like $20-30 and is replaceable on most laptops and desktops. An audio card can be bypassed with USB or a PCIe add-in card. That’s pretty much everything this might apply to.
How many people have these issues with audio and networking? I currently have 8 Linux computers and none of this has been necessary on any of them. It surprises me how many people claim to have endless difficult experiences. Many distros make it all very easy these days.
And editing a config file is hardly a “brick wall”.
Its definitely a brick wall to a majority of people using Windows right now.
editing a config file is hardly a “brick wall”.
No it’s not but it’s also not something I’m prepared to put up with. When I turn my computer on it’s because I have something I want to do and the thing I want to do with it is not mess with the basic configuration.
Personally I’d advise against linux then. even if it means a million downvotes here.
Windows or actually OSX (if you’re ok with mac hardware) or chromeos will work much better for people who don’t ever want to do any basic configuration of their system. All of those have their own issues of course, so it’s a tradeoff for the user to consider. If doing no basic config is the #1 requirement, then I think that rules out linux as the correct choice.
If a user would stay maybe 12-24 months behind the cutting edge then they might be ok with a rolling release. The one time I did get a latest gen Wifi/BT card, I had to migrate from Debian to Arch to get it working.
I belive the only way youll get that experince with linux is with defined hardware - laptops or steamdeck. Linux is never going to cover all possible bleeding edge hardware combinations in a custom PC with no user config effort.
Until or unless linux becmes bigger than MS, and all HW manufactures get theur linux drivers working before the device goes on sale, as a matter of course. Never gonna happpen unless MS actually goes bust or something. I can’t see linux ever competing in B2B market; do all linux distributers combined have the resources to smarm up to a million corpo procurement twats? I don’t think so.
I have a question. Have you modified registries in Windows? If so, you’ve done harder stuff than Linux will ask of you already. You just don’t think about it anymore.
Once Linux is set up (which is trivial now), it’s easier to manage than Windows. How often do you have something to do, launch the app, the app sends you to a website for an update, then you have to navigate there and download it, run it, and restart? On Linux, as long as you tell your package manager to update occasionally, all your applications will be kept up to date. Applications don’t have to manage updates themselves and you just need to hit a few buttons or type one command and you’re updated.
I also tried Ubuntu 10 years ago and threw it away in anger. Have been using mint for over a year now and game on it regularly. All I really needed to know was: use proton and add ‘gamemoderun %command%’ into the launch option of the game.
Except for mods on Nier. That was a hassle.
Its actually more annoying on the work computer. Ms office windows apps are kind of great compared to libreoffice, especially with the collaboration options. But Linux is nicer to do dev work on so ¯\(ツ)/¯
Ms office windows apps are kind of great compared to libreoffice
Did you give OnlyOffice a try? https://flathub.org/apps/org.onlyoffice.desktopeditors
I did, it is a little easier for me to use than libre.
I ran linux mint for a couple months. It was nice. Very few problems.
Unfortunately, when I tried to install it on this newer desktop it was a shit-show. No wifi or ethernet, no hdmi, it crashed when I tried to play elden ring. I should try another distribution, but I was so distressed after two days I just rolled back. The people in the mint discord were helpful, though, and got some of the problems fixed.
Windows sucks though.
Since Mint is based on a stable distro, it’ll be running older software that won’t support your newer hardware well, and you’re experiencing that firsthand.
Try Fedora, Bazzite, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, or anything else that’s more bleeding edge – they’re still very usable and reliable, it’s just that stable distros like Mint and Debian are “stable and reliable” overkill.
Edit: and if you’re wondering why this wasn’t mentioned to you from the start, the answer is likely that these distros tend to be:
- Less popular and get fewer mentions and votes, and
- Are considered riskier in an enterprise context, so stable distros are deemed a safe recommendation since the odds of things going wrong on supported hardware is extremely low.
I’ve got this move coming up - my plan is to dual boot and slowly wean over.
Game crashes in Linux, try for a fix and if I get frustrated, boot into windows and enjoy the game.
Might be a rocky year, but the dual boot will likely take the stress off!
I’ve seen a lot of fedora-based distros pushed for gaming (mint is Debian based), apparently these can work better. Still looking into it, but no definitive answers there yet!
All of my devices except my work one are now Linux.
I have an old surface go 2 that good a massive new lease on life from using arch plasma. Double the battery life and everything. It could no longer get updates from MS because there was no longer enough space on the main drive to download and install the next update.
Then I have an old retro gaming pc that used to be for XP gaming but I ended up sticking bazzite on it for a test and it’s stayed that way and because of that when I built my girlfriend’s latest PC we decided to go bazzite desktop for her. And after getting past a few growing pains at the beginning that made it look like we made the wrong decision (due to an old 10xx gtx gpu - now on 3050) she’s been enjoying it and now it’s just standard.
Then I have my proper gaming PC that I use like a console so I put bazzite-deck on it as soon as I got an AMD card. And I’ve never felt better. HTPC console like gaming on windows was a fucking arse-on, even with steam big picture mode, because it doesn’t get all of the cool bells and whistles that let you control basic system settings right from steam like you can on steam os and bazzite deck.
For work I’ve started moving away from visual studio to VS Code (i know it’s still MS but I do C# .NET work and rider is too expensive, I don’t want a subscription for an IDE) to allow me to easily transition to fully working on Linux if the opportunity ever arises. Whether it be with my current employer and me convincing them to let me to install Linux on my laptop or with a future company. We’ll see which comes first ;)
Now it’s time to get and decouple from Google. Currently figuring out with android auto maps app I want (waze won’t run for some reason, my current winner at the moment is tom tom amigo). Then it’s on to getting a password manager, then a new browser (preferably way more lightweight than chrome) and potentially a Google pay replacement(?).
Any suggestions and opinions from anyone here - even though this is tangentially off topic - would be greatly appreciated.
Btw Rider is now free for non commercial use
This is for my job…
You could ask your employer for a license I guess
Then I’m reliant on my current workplace rather than figuring out a consistent way to code at work, outside of work and at any other future workplace.
Don’t want to have to get used to one kind of workflow to then not being able to use it in another setting.
VS Code (i know it’s still MS but I do C# .NET work and rider is too expensive, I don’t want a subscription for an IDE)
VSCodium is a thing too if you want to un-Microsoft even further.
I use it for C# development on Linux and it works well.
getting a password manager
Bitwarden and Keepass are usually the go tos, depending on your use case.
then a new browser
Firefox or if you want to decouple from Mozilla as well, Librewolf works pretty well.
potentially a Google pay replacement
I’m not aware of any open Google Pay replacements other than taking a card with you.
As soon as you get rid of Google on your phone, you get rid of Google Pay.
I used vscodium for a bit but their latest C# Dev kit is locked to VS Code proper :(
I even made a cool bash script that would download and install ms vs store extensions and all of their dependencies before hitting this roadblock (to get the ones not available on open vsx).
Thanks for the password manager suggestions, I’ll look into them when I get a chance.
I’ve been looking into firefox forks too.
I would like to keep contactless via my phone as I don’t ever really carry my wallet with me anymore these days so maybe Google pay will have to stay. Bit annoying that it won’t be able to be used on whatever browser I end up going with though :(
Is there something missing in OmniSharp that prevents you from using VSCodium?
I do most of my C# development with the OmniSharp plugin in VSCodium on Linux.
Does it have proper .sln support with a solution explorer?
I don’t use the Solution explorer but I also don’t think it has one.
I usually kickstart a fresh application with a SLN and a few projects in the dotnet CLI and VSCodium picks up the launch project automatically when I tell it to create a launch.json. For existing applications, if the .vscode folder already exists it will just pick it up or I can also just ask it to create a launch.json.
That workflow has been ingrained into me since there were no real C# utilities for VS Code when it first launched, so not much changed for me when going to VSCodium.
There are dozens of us.
This is a huge opportunity. All of us Linux geeks now need to be on mainstream social media platforms and actively seek out and help everyone who expresses an interest in switching from Windows to Linux.
Let me save you the trip. I have an old trash spec hp all in one that’s had the bag beat out of it, what is the best lightweight Linux distro to make this a usable web browsing and PDF file viewer? (To be used in my garage to look at FSM, wiring diagrams, play music, Google crap etc nothing demanding). I’ve tried mint and it works ok but thinking lighter weight ?
Damn Small Linux is very lightweight and comes with browser and PDF viewer preloaded. It doesn’t have a GUI software installer though, so you will have to use the terminal if you need to install stuff.
FSM
Finite-state machine?
Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Forgetting Sarah Marshall?
FSM in the context of a garage probably means Factory Service Manual, i.e. the service manual for a car or motorbike
This is the correct answer lol thank you
Its female siamese midgets, how can you not know this?
fatal sex maneuver
I installed MX Linux on an old tablet/ laptop with 2GB RAM AND 30GB storage. Works very well except for the webcam, but that’s because the hardware is made so that only windows can use it correctly.
I see you have only two different answers so far. which is just not playing the game. i’ll give you another two; there are at least 15 “best lightweight linux distro”. For your use, I’d pick any one at random, try it out on a bootable usb.
Personslly, I’d try stock debian and choose LXQT for a lightweight desktop.
puppylinux also deserves a mention, I always have a bootble PL usb lying around somewhere. Its reliable , fast for a usb, very good potato-compatibility, has loads of useful programmes and utilitiea already in there. I’ve never actually installed it permanently though. Scared of making a commitment to slackware that I don’t understand.
I’d avoid Damn Small and Tiny Core though - unless you really need them. Cool as they are they are well out of mainstream.
You could try Linux Mint XFCE edition. Comes with a more lightweight desktop environment.
At that point you might as well just run Debian Testing with XFCE. Or Xubuntu. Basically the same thing.
Other Debian-based distros with XFCE are going to be very similar, yes.
Xubuntu is going to install Snaps if you install some software through apt, though, which imo is kind of gross. That’s the reason I switched to Mint. But if you like Snaps, it’s arguably a better choice.
Debian might be slightly harder to set up. However, from what I hear, it’s easy enough for most people now.
If you’re already familiar with regular Mint, XFCE Edition is going to have the same key bindings, update manager and driver manager, so it should be slightly easier to use.
Good points. And fuck snaps. If I have to use some sort of “all-in-one”, it’s flatpak or nothing.
Debian might be slightly harder to set up. However, from what I hear, it’s easy enough for most people now.
It’s pretty easy to install these days. I use Debian exclusively on all of my VMs. I prefer the text-based installer because everything is headless and doesn’t need a GUI, but there’s also a graphical installer as well, which is pretty easy to navigate and use.
Have to admit, the name “Recall” does have a better ring to it than “Take a Screenshot Every 3 Seconds”.
Overseas devs have had the random screenshot to prove productivity happening for a while now. There’s a hundred ways around it. Most common is a second computer next to you dev machine.
Welp… Linux it is, then
Nahh bro just use third party script then re run it every update 🤡
every linux user: Oh no…well anyway
It is good to use linux. But this has an impact on everyone to some degree. You may use Linux, but does your family, friends, your doctor, your teacher or boss, and whoever else who has some of your personal data?
You do bring a good point. Every doctor will havemy phone number on file and recall will screen shot that. I cant do anything to stop that. Same with every other piece of data.
At least my doctor won’t have screen shot of everything, web page, picture, word doc, friends lists, political news, I view on screen.
Someone will have vital information stolen from a recall hack on a 3rd party
My data being in the hands of a 3rd party at all is arguably a larger risk than said 3rd party running Windows. No single individual can control what OS any particular 3rd party runs, and if you hand data over to a 3rd party, at some point you have to trust them. If you don’t trust them, find someone you can trust.
Don’t make everyone else’s choice of OS my problem.
Tbh I’d pay money for a foss alternative here. There are smart systems in KDE and Gnome already but if it could recall exact details on free software it would be awesome.
You can install key and screen loggers if you want. Could even setup offsite backup and rclone it all wherever you want.
Would be interesting to see how microsoft kills windows in the long term and then be shocked as to how this happened
Kind of like how they fucked up and let zoom become the pandemic program everyone used despite skype being so established it had already become a verb like google? M$ really racking up those wins recently
Zoom was so bad, too. It was so unreliable, it was missing basic features, the UI was unfriendly.
They’ve improved on each of these things slightly since then.
But it’s a testament to how bad Skype was that Zoom was found to be preferable.
On a separate note, I just installed a Linux partition on my laptop to dual boot since I still need windows for AGI32 and Autodesk. Next weekend, I’ll be shrinking my windows partition, move my files to a new partition and mount it in Linux so I can access files both ways.
Feels so good to have absolute control of my computer again.
I’m glad I got out when I could because Recall is such a dodgy ‘feature’.
So reading more into it, it’s (currently) only on the bogus copilot+ PCs they were peddling? I’m happily on bazzite, but this is good news for my stubborn mates that haven’t touched copilot+ shit.
I would not count on them telling the truth.
I checked my Windows 11 work laptop a while ago, and that shit was enabled. Did not see that in any UI, but using command line. Said that shit was enabled and active, but apparently it was not yet doing anything. I will have to check again next time I am firing that machine up again, because I absolutely trust them to re-enable it without my consent, those bottom-feeding scum suckers.
Obligatory info on how to check and disable recall in Windows 11:
- Click on the Start button with the right mouse button and select “Terminal (Administrator)” or “Windows PowerShell (Administrator)”, or if necessary log in as administrator and confirm.
- In the Terminal or PowerShell, enter the command
DISM /Online /Get-FeatureInfo /FeatureName:Recalland press the Enter key. - If the entry “Enabled” appears next to “State”, the recall function is already activated. In this case, the function can be disabled using the command
DISM /Online /Disable-Feature /FeatureName:Recall - Close the window.
From this page.
Thank you for this, valuable info right there.
Oh give it time it will appear after an update on everything else, “accidentally”.
laughs in Linux
There’s nothing to laugh about. The maniacally evil thing about recall is, that it doesn’t matter what you do to keep your devices clean. If you interact with someone who doesn’t keep his devices clean, which is 100% of us, you’re on recall
Good thing I have no friends to interact with then! Take that, Microsoft!
We live in weird age, where using Windows is becoming harder than Linux (even though it has its own issues).
We’ve been there for a long time.
Broadly speaking, outside of some specific niche workflows, Linux has been pretty easy for a long time, and Windows has a lot of unintuitive stuff that we only think is easy because we’re used to it.
Linux and Windows certainly both have their failings, but it feels like Linux’s generally stem from the lack of full time developers on projects, whereas failings in Windows often feel like a deliberate user-hostile choice.
I opt-out.
Me too… well using linux is technically opting out to that right?
It’s the only way to be sure Microsoft won’t sneakily turn it back on.
At least until they sneak it into VS Code’s telemetry. …only sort of joking.
VS Codium to the rescue.
neovim to the rescue.
I spent a couple of weeks trying to get used to vim and in the end I just figured that whatever performance boost I’m supposed to get by not having a UI, I lose by having to learn vim.
People who use it need to be on some kind of government watch list.
Just like opting out of using a Microsoft account to log into windows, the grips will get tighter and tighter over time until you are forced to use butt hole ID to unlock your screen.
While I very much dislike that too, it’s very easy to opt out. Just use Windows Pro, Enterprise, or education.
I guess that means I have to break out the old GOATSE wall paper.
How long until Microsoft gets accused of stealing classified info?
Last time they thought about rolling it out, security researchers immediately found ways to do clear text exfiltration of user data.
This should be terrifying for anybody who is at all concerned about opsec for anything at all.
Corporate /LTS editions don’t have this crap. MS only rapes the peasantry
For now. Plus, lots of companies still use Windows “Professional” SKUs.
Thankfully my work laptop runs W11 Enterprise, but still…
I’m sure most corporations have agreements that prevent M$ from using this. Or M$ has to host all of its data gathering on azure government.
The entire point of recall is that it’s running locally. That’s why only a very very very small subset of all Windows 11 PCs support it. Only “copilot+” pc supports it which are PCs with very specific processors with AI processing. Most notably the new Snapdragon arm PCs.
You’re incredibly naiive if you think MS isn’t harvesting that data.
I think the EDPB would have a field day if that was the case.
Oh for sure, but EU is actually attempting to modernize their laws for the 21st century. Here in the US, you’d be lucky if there was any protection at all, especially with the absolute farce of an administration currently “running” the country (into the ground, that is).
