Now I understand why at each windows 11 update, they introduce more bugs than ever

  • @krimson@lemmy.world
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    2462 months ago

    Horseshit.

    The current state of code generated by AI is sketchy at best. I often get plain wrong answers because the model tries to derive. It comes up with calls to functions and properties that just do not exist.

    “You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.

    Apart from that, apps that are glued together from AI generated code are not maintainable at all. What if there is a bug somewhere and you so not comprehend what is actually happening? Ask AI to fix it? Yeah good luck with that.

    I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.

    • @jordanlund@lemmy.world
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      782 months ago

      This ^

      “20%-30% of code inside the company’s repositories”

      Now, if they had said “20%-30% of code written in the past 6 months…” I might buy that.

      The repositories are going to have all the current codebase, likely going back years now. AI generated code is barely viable at this point and really only pretty recently.

      No way 1/3rd of all current codebase is AI.

    • @takeda@lemm.ee
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      142 months ago

      They say that because they are selling it.

      And yeah, my experience is the same. The most frustrating is when writing in a typed python, and it gives answers that are clearly incorrect, making up attributes that don’t even exist etc.

      • Balder
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        42 months ago

        My brother said his superior asked him to use more AI auto complete so that they can brag to investors that X percent of the company’s code is written by AI. This told me everything about the current state of this bullshit.

    • @jaybone@lemmy.zip
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      52 months ago

      I didn’t RTA, but if they mean ALL code at MS, that just can’t be true. They have legacy stuff going back decades, beyond just their windows platform. There’s no way 30% of all their code is replaced or newly created by AI.

    • @unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      “You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.

      To be fair, the AI’s not wrong. It’s probably better, but just a teeny tiny bit so.

      Honestly, AI is like a genie - whatever you come up with he’ll just butcher and misinterpret so you start questioning both your own sanity and the semantics of language. Good thing these genies have no wish limit, but bad thing that they murder rainforests while generating their non-sequitur replies.

    • @spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      22 months ago

      “You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers

      The exact same wrong answer. Co-Pilot is especially bad for that. I’m practically giving up using it outside of vs code because the actual copilot AI is dog shit stupid m

    • fmstrat
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      12 months ago

      “Auto complete generated 30% of characters”

      Fixed it.

    • nickwitha_k (he/him)
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      12 months ago

      I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.

      This is my experience. It can be useful for simple things that used to be found with a web search before AI slop broke things. For example, I was having trouble getting a simple CGO program for a POC to communicate with the main Go process. This should have been solvable easily with documentation but the CGO docs are pretty bad and sample code was near impossible to find due to AI slop in the search results. GPT was able to provide the needed sample code to unblock me.

  • @IcyToes@sh.itjust.works
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    852 months ago

    He used the word written by software. This is ambiguous and doesn’t mean AI, for example, using annotations for variables and generating the getters and setters would count. Right click and create function body for interface function definitions also.

    They’re exaggerating to pretend their AI is more useful than it is.

    • @MoonRaven@feddit.nl
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      182 months ago

      Intellisense in visual studio has also been really good for over a decade. Which is technically also written by software and not me.

    • @jaybone@lemmy.zip
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      82 months ago

      People have been using annotations to generate code since I rode my dinosaur to work.

  • @WhatSay@slrpnk.net
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    542 months ago

    So the CEO is trying to tell investors that they are saving money by not paying employees. But to me it sounds more like: we are letting our sub-par products continue to enshitify, and any other company using AI to program will be equal competition.

    • @normalexit@lemmy.world
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      122 months ago

      I think he’s trying to say that their AI writes code good enough for Microsoft. Which is a message to other business leaders that your company too can benefit from copilot, just hand over your credit card!

      Microsoft has absolutely gotten worse in the consumer space, but that isn’t really their business these days.

  • @Wispy2891@lemmy.worldOP
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    412 months ago

    Power move by the zucc by first asking how much genai is used at Microsoft then refusing to answer his own question at Facebook 😂

  • @joelfromaus@aussie.zone
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    372 months ago

    This is my own experience but the past few years Windows has been extremely dependable for me and then in the last few months the updates they’ve have been terrible. I’ve seen more blue screens recently than I have in a lot of years.

    All this to say that if it is 30% AI code being used then it’s very telling!

    • @themachinestops@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 months ago

      Windows was always garbage to be honest, windows 7 was the best release in my opinion. You are correct though it is way worse these past months. By the way does your mouse lag when the update notification comes up?

      • lime!
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        32 months ago

        i had such a bad experience with 7, it was horribly unstable on a computer that had handled vista just fine. i switched to 8 as soon as i could and was better off for it.

        • @JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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          12 months ago

          It’s great if you don’t need it to be on the network. I’d say they didn’t have networking figured out until almost the end of XPs lifespan.

    • @ano_ba_to@sopuli.xyz
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      32 months ago

      I don’t remember in my 2 decades of working my work machine causing me to lose work due to a Windows update. In the last year, it happened to me 3 times. One was due to Crowdstrike. The latest update also recently broke my remote setup. Not completely their fault but still a crappy time. The one other time was due to an update (must’ve been the forced win11 one) killing the wifi and then Windows hiding any options to fix it, a bug from Windows 10.

  • @infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net
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    312 months ago

    Government spyware finally has a challenger for the title of “primary reason that most Microsoft software runs like hot garbage”.

  • @scarabic@lemmy.world
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    302 months ago

    If they mean “30% of the code we wrote last month” then I might believe it. Though I bet it is not across the board but deep in one or two areas. Still, it’s a crazy number.

    But he said something like “30% of the code in our repositories” which would mean everything, including their entire legacy of code. And that I simply do not believe.

    • @Womble@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Its a shit article with Tech crunch changing the words to get people in a flap about AI (for or against), the actual quote is

      “I’d say maybe 20 percent, 30 percent of the code that is inside of our repos today and some of our projects are probably all written by software”

      “Written by software” reasonably included machine refactored code, automatically generated boilerplate and things generated by AI assistants. Through that lens 20% doesnt seem crazy.

      • @MangoCats@feddit.it
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        32 months ago

        I’ve been “automatically writing code” for a system of about a dozen modules - we specify a glue file in .json between all the modules and the code generating software makes units to go in each module to do the communication interfacing based on the glue spec. That system has been running for more than 10 years now, it writes a couple hundred thousand lines of “new code” every time we modify the glue file.

    • @MangoCats@feddit.it
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      92 months ago

      My first thought on reading that is: yeah, like about 98% of the human genome is “junk DNA” that we have little or no idea what it might be doing. Sometimes when we cut it out, nobody ever notices, sometimes when we cut it out the system won’t boot up.

    • @prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2 months ago

      It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they entered the entire codebase for Windows 11 into an LLM and asked it to optimize it or some shit lol

    • @degen@midwest.social
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      22 months ago

      Of course it’s just bad writing, but I kind of wouldn’t put it past management to try shoving their multitude of codebases through an LLM at this point.

  • @megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    292 months ago

    I bet they’re counting code written while someone had an AI plugin installed as “written by AI” and I bet that accounts for almost all of that 30%. On top of that, I’m betting that they made it mandatory to have such a plug in, and the other 70% is just code written before they mandated this.

    • @taladar@sh.itjust.works
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      92 months ago

      I would be very surprised if 30% of their code lines had even been touched at all by anyone since AI coding assistants became a thing.

      • @megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        22 months ago

        I could see stuff getting small changes and them claiming that the entirety of the new version is “written by AI”.

      • @tal@lemmy.today
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        2 months ago

        I wish this shot from The Terminator had the camera showing Sarah Conner’s face instead of Reese’s, because it’d be such an appropriate meme image on multiple levels for when someone makes a misleading claim about some current AI system.

    • @SandmanXC@lemmy.world
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      52 months ago

      Also, having 1/3 lines with obvious code that can be auto suggested correctly would make sense, but that is hardly code “written by ai” in the way they suggest.

      • @megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        22 months ago

        I’d guess a lot of the people writing the code don’t even have it turned on, it’s just installed because management said it had to be, because management wants to be able to tell investors they’re “innovating work flows”.

      • @Nighed@feddit.uk
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        02 months ago

        Those are the easy time savings though, the safe easy stuff the developer doesn’t have to worry about anymore. (Giving them time do the gnarly stuff)

        • @taladar@sh.itjust.works
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          12 months ago

          It is exactly the opposite, with simple, predictable auto-complete you didn’t have to worry about that anymore, with LLMs you always have to look at it in detail because every little thing could be just plain completely different and wrong.

          • @Nighed@feddit.uk
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            12 months ago

            I can read way faster than I can type though. You still check it, but it’s pretty good as that kind of stuff once you have an example for it to follow.

            • @taladar@sh.itjust.works
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              22 months ago

              Reading code is usually orders of magnitude slower than writing code. Sure, typing might be slower than reading but to check if it is what you intended you have to understand it too.

              • @mbtrhcs@feddit.org
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                12 months ago

                Well, I’m generally very anti-LLM but as a library author in Java it has been very helpful to create lots of similar overloads/methods for different types and filling in the corresponding documentation comments. I’ve already done all the thinking and I just need to check that the overload makes the right call or does the same thing that the other ones do – in that particular case, it’s faster. But if I myself don’t know yet how I’m going to do something, I would never trust an AI to tell me.

                • @taladar@sh.itjust.works
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                  12 months ago

                  Well, okay, I can see how it would be useful in languages like Java that are extremely verbose and have a low expressiveness. Writing Java pretty much was already IDEs with code generation 20 years or so ago because nobody wants to write so much boilerplate by hand.

  • @FergleFFergleson@infosec.pub
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    272 months ago

    Well, that would explain a lot.

    I’m also guessing that at “up to 30%” of the company’s leadership decisions are being made by AI too.

  • @Bieren@lemmy.world
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    202 months ago

    Work for a big software company. With all the offshoring of devs, I expect most of our code is now AI. And it shows.

      • @chilicheeselies@lemmy.world
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        32 months ago

        Quality degredation and Disjointed experience comes to minds. Microsofts tech is such a mess right now i dont know how they come back from it honestly. Too many competing frameworks, bad schemas, broken tooling, bad documentation.

        Im not even factoring in windows 11.

        I used to be a windows dev guy, but with this landscape I dunno why i would do it to myself. Developing for linux systens is such a better experience. At least there are standards and ubernerds who adhere to them.

        • @Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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          12 months ago

          Coming back from this is easy.

          Extend support for windows 10 for another 4 years. Take a break from their OS release cycle and get the next OS right. Remove the Microsoft account mandate from sign in. Remove AI by default. Remove Ads, weather, news and other bloat from the OS. The focus should be creating the cleanest, simplest, abstraction between the user and the hardware.

          • @chilicheeselies@lemmy.world
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            12 months ago

            Its not nearly that easy. They are dealing with personalities behind all of this, investors they made promises to, etc. What you are describing is the right thing to do, its just very complicated with a ship as big as microsoft to turn on a dime like that. The bigger the org, the slower it is to react and the harder it is to course correct

  • @Auli@lemmy.ca
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    182 months ago

    Is this why they haven’t said why they one folder needs to be there. They actually don’t know.

      • @JSens1998@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        Basically, there was a security flaw with Microsoft’s Internet Information Services (web server software) that could be exploited by an attacker to gain access to files and folders they shouldn’t be able to (permission escalation?). Well, instead of providing an actual fix to the problem as a whole, they applied a bandaid fix by creating a new folder named “inetpub” on peoples system drive, and apparently the presence of the folder is able to prevent the exploit from working. People noticed the folder and deleted it because they thought it was being created by an attacker, so Microsoft had to tell people not to delete it.