It’s impossible to work 3000 hours of overtime in a year. This is fraud. If that person is actually working those hours, then it’s incompetence by the Sergeant above them allowing them to work that many overtime hours for no reason.
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3151 hrs of overtime.
78.775 full-time 40 hour weeks there.
So assuming 2 weeks of vacation, he somehow managed to work 128.775 weeks in a year?
128.775/50 - let’s see how many work weeks he had to work each week to get there - 2.5755
So each week he had to be working about 2.6 normal weeks, or about 103 hours a week.
Assuming he worked 7 days each week, he was doing 14.7 hour shifts every day of those 50 weeks of working 7 days with no breaks.
Hmm.
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Your definition of full time is incorrect. Full time is 40h/week, at 52 weeks per year that’s 2080 hours per year. 3000 hours of overtime puts the total at 5080, or 19.5 hours per day.
That’s by working 5 days a week, every week, no vacation nor PTO nor sickness.
It is fraud
I think you are a bit off with your assumptions. In California, overtime is earned either when you work more than 40 hours per week, OR more than 8 hours a day.
So technically he could have for example worked three 24 hour shifts in a week, which would equal three 8 hour shifts (24 regular time hours) and three 16 hour overtime blocks (48h OT). 48 * 52 = 2,496 OT. He could have even been sleeping and on call while working that OT.
Definitely poor management but not guaranteed fraud. The math is more nuanced.
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14.47 hour days to the maximum legal amount of days before days off. And working on holidays is time and a half or double time by default as well. Could be done. Not good, but not fraud.
The trick I read before is to arrest someone at the end of your shift, then you have to process them at overtime and possibly wait for a judge or something. They know the tricks to draw it out.
Of course why didn’t I think of arresting someone just to get overtime? Probably because I’m not a fucking psychopath
Sorry to inform you but your application to the police academy has been denied
Cops at my hospital are all in overtime. They bring in inmates for psych holds/psych eval and then supervise them hands-off for the entire hospital stay. Easy money. Then the really entitled ones try to act pushy and basically want us to give the patient shots for unjustified reasons. Just so they can sit and watch movies without being bothered.
He surely did work 11,5hours everyday additionaly to his regular shift 🥴
Think about a surgeon. We put peoples lives in their hands. We expect them to be preposterously educated, able to perform extreme tasks under significant duress, to maintain ongoing technical and specialized training, to prove that the training is effective, and they are compensated accordingly. If they fuck up, they can be held personally liable for their fuck ups. There are consequences to the career and its not a role to be taken on lightly.
Hear me out.
We raise the amount we pay cops to 1.5 million dollars a year… but.
No qualified immunity. It no longer exists (guess what? it already doesn’t exist for military service members). Any crimes they commit, the consequences are 10x’d and they are no longer allowed to engage in public service, ever. They can be publicly executed for any crimes beyond misdemeanor. They have to pay for their own equipment. They have to carry liability insurance for any violations of civil rights which might occur in the line of performing their duties.
The minimum qualification is a PhD in constitutional law. They need to be able to run a 6 minute mile, do 100 push ups in 2 minutes, 200 sit ups in 2 minutes, and 80 burpees in 2 minutes. They need to be able to carry 120 lbs for 10 minutes up an incline. They need to be able to recite the US Constitution, the state constitution, and the local city and county charters where they are stationed. They are expected to have advanced knowledge of any and all laws they are expected to be enforcing. They have to undergo annual psychological, physical, technical, and legal reassessments to prove their suitability for the job; these reassessments are maintained as a part of public record.
We 10x the pay and we hire 1/10th the number of cops. It becomes a career path somewhere between than a doctor or a lawyer or an astronaut. Its not something a HS drop out should be able to consider as a career path.
Look, obviously, hyperbole. Or is it?
What about this, instead we just take that 1.5 mill a year and put it towards things that actual solve problems, rather than making sure we have the best and brights super soldiers doing traffic stops and taking notes on your break in.
Since we’re engaging in fantasy, sure.
But I think you’ll find no matter what you do, some version of a person whose role in society is to enforce the laws, a kind of “law enforcement”, emerges.
The properties of that role can vary widely from society to society, but pretty much every society independently comes to the same conclusion, that the role is necessary, once the society determines a common and well structured code of conduct is necessary.
100% abolish the police. They are a corrupt institution which finds their roots in re-enforcing a slave culture. 100% let every prisoner free. The roots of the prison system in the US are the same as the police state.
But countries with no history of slavery have police forces and prison systems. They are an emergent property of large social systems. Society will re-invent the role. We might as well fill the niche in a manner we want, instead of a manner we dont want.
But countries with no history of slavery have police forces and prison systems. They are an emergent property of large social systems. Society will re-invent the role. We might as well fill the niche in a manner we want, instead of a manner we dont want.
I mean yeah, if you don’t have means of enforcing law, the law becomes pointless, might as well abolish all laws.
And I mean that MIGHT be possible, but do we really want to test what it’d be like in a lawless society where it’s probably going to be money and violence that decides who’s right, kinda like now, but with no possibility of suing the people with money or violence, you could only respond with your own violence.
The idea that things devolve into a lawless society because a lack of police is absurdist reductionism.
Firstly, we already live in a lawless society; see any of the actions Trump has taken since January. Its just a matter of “for whom does the law apply?”
Second, and I posted this to your other response, the idea that we can’t “abolish a police department and rebuild it into something that serves its intended purpose” is also absurdist, in at least that we have the counter-factual of it actually happening: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/12/camden-policing-reforms-313750
So they didn’t abolish the police, they reformed it. That doesn’t disprove my statement, which in itself was not a shot at you, merely commentary on what you said.
You said
They are an emergent property of large social systems. Society will re-invent the role. We might as well fill the niche in a manner we want, instead of a manner we dont want.
And I don’t disagree, I merely stated that police of some sort, regardless of name, is not just an emergent property, but also a necessity. I never said that the way Americans do policing is THE way to do it. I’m not American myself.
Firstly, we already live in a lawless society; see any of the actions Trump has taken since January. Its just a matter of “for whom does the law apply?”
That’s more an America problem than a “police is inherently bad” problem if you ask me.
TL;DR: Yes, I agree, policing in the US needs heavy reforms. But the moment you go around saying “abolish the police”, you’re not talking about reforms, or at least that’s not what most people are going to hear. They’re going to think they’re going to have to live in The Purge. So maybe stop referring to it that way and people will give your ideas, which are actually good, more consideration.
No. The abolished it. They didn’t reform it. They abolished it.
But the moment you go around saying “abolish the police”, you’re not talking about reforms, or at least that’s not what most people are going to hear.
Stop it.
Don’t both misinterpret what I said and then put words I didn’t put down into my mouth. If your balls shrink into your chest when you hear “abolish the police”, thats a you problem. Likewise, if you are basing your decision making on “what most people want to hear”, you probably are both a) not an effective strategist, and even further b) not a very good person.
Abolish the police. If you can’t do that, de-fund them. Tip-toeing around the sensitivities of a deeply immoral people isn’t a strategy that gets results. It only gets you halfway to no-where.
They still have a police mate. The city one was dissolved on the same day the county one started operations. There was not a day without police.
Likewise, if you are basing your decision making on “what most people want to hear”, you probably are both a) not an effective strategist, and even further b) not a very good person.
Maybe a better salesman than you though. Not that I’m a salesman at all.
You’re selling a nice system, but calling it total mayhem and anarchy. Nobody’s gonna want to buy it.
You seem to forget that people have to vote for things to happen. In a democratic system, anyway. If you want people to vote for police reform, call it police reform, not police abolishment. People read headlines, not articles. Most people read that a candidate is for police abolishment, it’s an immediate nope for them. People don’t want to live in a lawless society and nobody’s gonna read into what the candidate says they mean by abolishment.
For a couple of teachers?
I don’t understand what you mean.
Maybe I’m too easy to please but I’d be happier if they took the money that currently goes towards tanks and “how to shoot first” seminars and put it towards ongoing education for officers on law, de-escalation tactics, and critical thinking in stressful situations.
I mean, I agree entirely with the “abolish the police” movement. I don’t think policing in the US is recoverable. Its rotten to the core. Its a remnant of slavery. In that sense I’m an abolitionist.
But I also think its a thing that “law enforcement” is a thing that will be expected to happen. So if you are going to abolish policing as we currently know it, you need to replace it with something different.
Replace it with what? Militsiya? Pretty much every country in the world calls their law enforcement “police” these days. I suppose there are some that have gendarmerie or carabinieri or similar, though those exist next to police rather than instead of them usually.
These questions aren’t being asked in a vacuum: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/12/camden-policing-reforms-313750. Maybe ask a Camdenite? I’m sure we’ve got a few laying about.
Its not a hypothetical to dissolve a department of a government which is dysfunctional and rebuild it.
This is the way. I can’t tell you how much it hurts me when I see an obese cop.
Practicality-wise though, if the police have recruitment issues now though, finding recruits with a PhD will be impossible. People really overestimate how many PhD’s are out here in the wild.
That “No Tax on Overtime” pitch makes perfect sense now.
No wonder that cop in Parks & Recreation moved to San Diego.
For some reason my lemmy app glitched as I was scrolling and I was seeing this title above This post
Now do California Highway Patrol.
Since you can be ‘too smart’ to be a cop, can we get them to remove the america’s finest from their cars and gear? Clearly that is no longer the case.
The problem is not getting paid overtime for time spent working wtf. The problem is being the fucking worst??
3000 hours OT would mean over 5000 hours worked or 14 hours every damn day of the year.
#doubt
Even if true, that’s terrible management from a budgetary view (they could hire a second person for less cost) and an operations view (stretching a “high stress” position very thin).
Gotta be something where their contract lets them game the system. Picking up extra time if someone calls out sick on a holiday night or something. Probably got a “cartel” going where officers group up to trade and manipulate schedules in order to maximize pay.
TBF, I know people that don’t “cartel the system,” but do find ways to do OT on holiday and leave to get something like 5x hours, but that still is only 50-100 extra hours…not 3000…
defund.
Reform.
Fuck that. No. Abolish.
So we can go back to the wild West but with machine guns? No thanks. Abolishing it won’t stop those same assholes from existing they’ll just move to different forms of torment, but a reform will allow the uncorrupted cops to stay and the bigoted to be removed.
“Uncorrupted cops” is an oxymoron. As soon as anyone becomes a cop, their personal merits no longer matter.
That makes no sense. Cops are humans not machines, and humans are invariably different.
That response makes no sense. It doesn’t matter who a cop is, when they’re employed as a cop their duties come first.
You’re looking at this very one sided. Life isn’t black and white.
I want the police abolished and the prisons emptied today. I don’t care what happens next.
If you’re making wild suggestions, you should probably care about the effects it will have
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
You’re not familiar with prison abolition? I have some links if you’d like to educate yourself. :)
the reason for my latter sentence is that any impediment stops this goal from materializing. the right will always have a worry, or question, or addition, or delay, and each of these impediments prevents achieving the end goal. that latter sentence is strictly necessary to achieve the result.
You’re either being hyperbolic or you’re willfully ignorant about what would happen if we did that, neither of which help your case
Don’t get angry. Abolition is a good thing. It helps you. Instead, try to envision what the goal is. What do you think I’d like to achieve?
