“Violating international law” is pretty sterile/soft verbiage for fucking war crimes.
We have a Jewish politician open criticizing Israel, I’m pretty sure that says more than enough on its own
What do you mean? Jewish politicians are the only ones allowed to even mildly criticize Israel, because anti-semitism claims against them are taken slightly less seriously.
Spot on. Bernie has been called an anti-Semite before, he will probably be called one again for this and I’m sure it won’t be the last time he is called one.
And cue someone from the GOP calling him an antisemite/Nazi in 3… 2… 1…
Nazi Jew Mystery Stories: The Case of the Missing Fucks Given
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He denounced specific parts of the attack. The section of international law that explicitly allows violent resistance to a military occupation or blockade doesn’t exempt the resistors from the rest of international law. The IDF/Israel and Hamas have the same obligations under international law(s).
Yeah last I checked shooting up music festivals isn’t tho…
Every Hamas supporter seems to have this same cognitive dissonance.
Is Israel genocidal? Absolutely
Is hamas genocidal? Absolutely
Stop supporting genocide and claiming to be a leftist. You’re really just an extremist pos.
Yes, Israel has the advantage. No, that doesn’t make terrorism any less bad.
Stand with Palestine but denounce Hamas at every single opportunity, just as we should denounce the genocidal government of Israel at every opportunity.
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Yeah, I’m pretty sure I would. Mindless violence is never a good thing…
Most German citizens were not nazis, just as most Israeli citizens aren’t in favor of genocide. A powerful and motivated political minority is a scary thing indeed, kinda like Repubs in the US, or the current leaders of Israel, or Hamas, or the countless far-right Renaissances happening across Europe rn. Need I go on?
Again, I don’t disagree that Israel is genocidal. That doesn’t mean mindless violence and genocide in return are anywhere near the answer. There’s a reason MLK would leave cities if protesting turned into rioting. Even when you have the right answers, turning to violence isn’t a solution.
Does it suck to take the high road all the time? Yeah. Do you have to do it to not fall to the same level as the opponents? Also yes.
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Occupied populations absolutely have the right to engage in an armed struggle, just not the right to murder…
I do sit in an ivory tower here, but so do you, and that doesn’t make either of our words ring less true.
Take the words and actions of MLK, somebody who actually accomplished great social change while not living in that ivory tower.
Hate begets hate.
“And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard.”
-Also MLK
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
-MLK
The Jews would have been justified in killing every German they could get their hands on if it could help stop the Holocaust.
A genocidal society has no right to claim the mercy of a civilian/soldier distinction. They do not recognize it themselves.
It is a horrible tragedy on a personal level. No one person has any power over the situation they find themselves in, but that is the brutal logic of war. Societies will feel less safe in engaging in targeting civilians if their own are subject to retaliation when they do so.
But would it? No.
It wouldn’t help stop the holocaust, only create death and destruction, that’s kinda the whole point…
The death of your brother doesn’t make you want to forgive his murderer and instead radicalizes you more deeply against him.
Is Israel stopping the targeting of citizens now? No! They’ve cut off water and electricity to Gaza again.
Hate begets hate, dumbfuck.
Violence against Germany literally ended the Holocaust so you are just a clown.
I guess you would have sent thoughts and prayers to the extermination camps.
Sitting on the side lines whining about “both sides bad!” during the literal Holocaust is not “taking the high road.” It’s being an unprincipled coward.
And MLK had pretty scathing words for people like you.
It’s not “both sides bad”
It’s “murder of civilians and children is murder of civilians and children, even when it’s an oppressed group fighting back against oppressors.”
The fact that you can’t tell the difference tells me a lot. I’d also argue that it shows you to be the unprincipled one.
That’s just “both sides bad.”
The fact that you can’t tell the difference tells me a lot.
And the fact that you can’t tell the difference tells me even more.
I’d also argue that it shows you to be the unprincipled one.
dork
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Once again, massive swinging dick Bernie Sanders is one of the few bold enough to actually spit truth, no matter how much shit he catches for it.
And he’s Jewish.
Maybe its not the “jews” and the “palestanians” but the israeli government and hamas thats causing the problem. Also israel is a huge weapons testing facility for the us basically.
You’re right, it’s not the Jews and the Palestinians, it’s Hamas and Israel. But any criticism of Israel is seen as antisemitism.
Make it a point to say the Israeli Government
Only by idiots
There are a lot of idiots in the world.
And they can be ignored
I watched Sanders a couple of Dutch interview shows in the past few days because his latest book was translated to Dutch. He seemed sharp as a whip.
Sanders also reiterated his prior condemnation of the Hamas attack, calling it a “major setback for any hope of peace and reconciliation in the region – and justice for the Palestinian people.”
There was never any hope of peace and reconciliation and justice. 🙄
Yeah I have no idea how these people don’t get it. Are the Palestinians expected to just accept having their calories counted and reduced, their water limited, and their electricity shut off? Like what sort of peace do you think is possible?
Literally? The peace of the grave.
At this point the Israel Palestinian conflict required outside intervention
There is outside intervention!
On the side of Israel.
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Not with that attitude.
No, not with any knowledge of the last 70 years in the region.
Extremists on both side of this conflict want nothing but the extermination of the other and have been saying so for decades.
The world has been trying to broker any sort of solution for all that time but the political leaders on each side do not believe the other has a right to exist.
Grow up lol
EDIT ooh yeah keep downvoting Ledditors, I welcome your hatred 😜
that’s nice what is he going to do about it
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Well that’s just not factual
oh has he voted no on every bill that funds Israel?
He’ll bear witness to the suffering of Palestine while voting to give the zionist entity more cluster munitions.
he says WHAT? didn’t he say the opposite like 1 day ago?
I mean, good, but
No, he is opposed to war crimes by both sides
“Both sides should just stop being mean to each other” is in this case the blandest, most useless take you could possibly have. It does nothing for nobody, it’s just saying something for the sake of saying it.
What are his positions on how to resolve this thing? What should the Palestinians get in his opinion?
Not all Israelis are Likud, and not all Palestinians are Hamas. The problem is not the ‘sides’ being ‘mean’ to each other (quotes used because I think your choice of language trivialises the atrocities being committed by both sides), it is the civilians who are not part of Likud or Hamas being dragged into it.
The entire situation in Israel / Palestine is primarily a tale of escalatory tit-for-tat, and politicisation of hate, all starting from a relatively small initial grievance. Netanyahu showed himself when he deliberately provoked conflict in 2021, causing harm to civilians on both sides - in that example, it was blatant how willing he was to cause this much suffering for such a selfish reason, but that boldness only comes because Likud has been doing the same thing only slightly more subtly for years. So when Hamas commits war crimes, it was predictable that Likud would treat it as an opportunity to commit a bigger war crime and try to genocide the Palestinians in Gaza.
Neither Likud or Hamas want an enduring peace - their entire political relevance is through escalation. But the way to get peace is not by further escalation of violence / war crimes. The best way out of this is for the people of Israel and Palestine to say no to Likud and Hamas respectively, and pick leaders who want and know how to de-escalate.
I think he’s opposed to the occupation and the blockades.
Ok, cool, but that’s literally just saying “I don’t like bad thing happening”. What does he want to do to make the bad thing stop?
Nice job not responding to the well written comment that absolutely eviscerated your ‘point’ hours ago and instead responding to this one where you wouldn’t actually have to acknowledge your cluelessness abt the situation.
Which one?
you sound mad. are you mad?
Unlimited violence upon genocidal settler colonists, we don’t need to make excuses
This you bitch? Bc this is how “it stops”
More than one thing can be true. Hamas killing civilians is bad. Israel carpet combing civilians is also bad.
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Liberals are always dealing in the abstract. “Israel must stop oppressing Palestinians”
Ok who is going to make them? Then when the Palestinians stand up for themselves “this violence is abhorrent and must end immediately”
Ok how does it end? It’s like they have no concept of WHY people do things.
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So glad zionists don’t control the narrative this time.
It seems like the internet is doing it’s job, for once.
They do sadly. The media has repeated Israeli lies again and again even when provided with no proof of their claims. The whole baby beheading thing got spread so much that Joe Biden ended up calling it out and later clarified that they don’t have proof as well.
And Reddit has been banning pro Palestine subs and users from yesterday.
I sincerely doubt they’re banning “pro-palestine” subs and users and are banning the ones supporting Hamas and mindless violence. Reddit is far more anti-zionist than any other social media, for example.
Not to say that the Israeli propaganda machine isn’t running, but there is definitely a portion of antisemitic backing for Hamas (not Palestine) that’s going to get places banned for not following reddit’s sitewide rules about hate (just have to use some dogwhistles to get around it tho).
Reddit is far more anti-zionist than any other social media, for example.
me when i lie on the internet
Oh and by the way,
So, if I’m wrong, then what actually widely used social media is more antizionist than reddit?
Obviously,
Assuming that’s referring to hexbear, you’re aware that thousands doesn’t make something widely used right? Like there’s more people than that on just the NYC subreddit lmao.
While it’s still evil as fuck to see so much both sides garbage, I have yet to see anyone outright supporting the Zionists in this.
I think saying Israel has a ‘blank check’ to do whatever they want to Gaza is ‘outright supporting Zionists.’
Yeah, you’re right.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“For many, it is no secret that Gaza has been an open-air prison, with millions of people struggling to secure basic necessities,” Sanders said in a statement issued on Wednesday.
“Israel’s blanket denial of food, water, and other necessities to Gaza is a serious violation of international law and will do nothing but harm innocent civilians.”
Sanders also reiterated his prior condemnation of the Hamas attack, calling it a “major setback for any hope of peace and reconciliation in the region – and justice for the Palestinian people.”
Sanders is among the most prominent Jewish politicians in America, and during his presidential campaigns in 2016 and 2020, he was notably far more critical of Israel than most Democrats.
His comments are largely in line with those of progressive “Squad” members in the House, who have called for a cease-fire in the wake of the Hamas attack.
Some of those lawmakers have also used the word “apartheid” to describe Israeli’s occupation of the West Bank and blockade of Gaza, a term that’s used by numerous international human rights groups but is largely eschewed by American politicians.
The original article contains 385 words, the summary contains 185 words. Saved 52%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I know the rawness of such a vicious terrorist attack will cloud judgment and leave the Israelis furious and wanting blood. For any American who fails to understand this, imagine if 9/11 had been caused by a group of people living in a cordoned off part of New Mexico. We would have carpet bombed the ever loving fuck out of it and killed the majority of the people there. The only reason we didn’t have a swift full force military response after 9/11 is because we had to get assets to the region which took time.
I’ve watched these videos of Israel dropping buildings left and right. I certainly hope these are confirmed terrorist targets but there’s just a whole lot of them and I suspect many of them have civilians inside. I know we are currently in the ‘Israel can do no wrong and we stand by them’ phase but where is the line drawn? Does this terrorist attack justify genocide? Im not inclined to believe so. But I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible. I would have been wrong, but my point is we lived through that seething rage ourselves and it took us years to collectively calm ourselves.
I don’t know what the answer is. Obviously they have to respond. But what’s the line you draw? It would not surprise me if in a few months the opinions of the global public once again shift back to horror and condemnation of Israel as the reality of this response is made public.
But I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible.
Wtf.
You assholes DID do that, 3 million dead and millions more refugees.
If the people did 9/11 were Indigenous Americans living in an open air prison beside New York city, facing regular bombings, food shortages, lack of clean water and electricity and a constant encroachment upon their land, yeah little sympathy when they kill a couple settlers for once.
What is your source for 3 million because that is vastly higher than all estimates.
I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible
liberals just can’t stop telling on themselves
Really? That was what I learned from Fox News. Since my parents turned it on and never turned it off.
Wait. Did… did you just tell on yourself by accident? That is hilarious.
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I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible.
you have hitler living inside of you
I think one of the main lessons from Nazi Germany (and various old psychological experiments), is that everyday, average, people are capable of horrifying acts. This is especially true for kids who haven’t fully developed empathy yet (this is one reason child soldiers are used, gangs are mostly children, etc).
I was around the same age as the poster when 9/11 happened, and had the same thoughts, and many of the kids I knew had the same thoughts as well. I lived in the “country” outside of an all-white, pretty racist, very small town and had christian fundamentalist parents; which probably shaped my views when I was a child. I remember once in school, we had to do a presentations, and one group of kids did a presentation about turning Afghanistan to glass; which got laughs and no reprimands from the teacher.
That is hilarious.
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I certainly hope these are confirmed terrorist targets but there’s just a whole lot of them and I suspect many of them have civilians inside.
I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible.
@ in username
every time.
fuck right off, you piece of shit.
You know the US does have groups of people cordoned off in New Mexico? We have similar situations all over the US. They’re called Indian Reservations and we did regularly massacre the people that lived there (Wounded Knee being the most famous example).
But at least by 1924 we gave Native Americans citizenship and therefore the right of free movement. It only took about 150 years but they at least got basic rights eventually, even if the discrimination and violence continues.
Israel can’t even meet the standards of decency that America, a continuously not-decent country figured out for itself before Israel even existed.
People like you absolutely cannot be allowed anywhere near the levers of power in any society.
Your mindset is responsible for so much preventable suffering and you think it’s universal for some reason.
That deeply saddens me how warped your perception of reality must be.
Oh don’t worry that’s already happened.
It’s precisely because I can be honest with myself and you can’t that they handed me the keys but couldn’t trust you.
Society is full of people who talk, few who can act. You learn quickly who falls where.
Could you tell us what sort of power you’ve been entrusted with?
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I think my favorite is the guy who has responded to everything I’ve said like 8 times. You guys are great.
Why do you want to know? So you can try and cancel me? Call my boss, or at least what you think is my boss and tell them about me? I mean go nuts. Show them what I’ve said. The thing that makes this all so unbearable for people like you is that I’m the same here as I am in person.
Do you think I am like you? Pretending to be this or that and then sneaking home to don some persona on the internet? It’s embarrassing. I don’t say one fucking word if I don’t mean it. That’s in person, that’s online. It means I don’t have to keep track of all the little half truths you tell, the silly little story you have invented.
I’m an asshole. You’re right about that. But there isn’t anything you can do about that. You know why? Because I made sure I was really Fucking good at something that people like you couldn’t stomach. So there will always be another job for me.
It affords me the liberty to tell the truth. To piss off little shit dicks such as yourself. If you do not like that, too Fucking bad.
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Did you really reply again. And break it all down… Again…
You know what’s funny is memmy shits the bed with imbedded pictures so all your little memes are just url strings with a thumbnail. I guess hopefully other people are enjoying them??
I’ll be around tomorrow and you can keep trying. One time I went back and forth with a guy for 8 hours straight. The only thing I can guarantee out of all of this is that we will both lose no matter what you do. And that is by design.
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It’s a shame he got banned. I wanted to know if he was a CIA agent or a Navy Seal.
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Absolutely true. The discussion was more about which resources and financial benefit would be best for the people in the room.
Maybe not in every one of the rooms. But the one that mattered, you better Fucking believe.
why are so many users who come here through federation so fucking stupid?
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Did uh, you not live through the same timeline I did? I was 14. I had the mental faculties one would expect from a 14 year old. I probably could have been calmed down and shown the right way of things. But I wasn’t. Because Americans weren’t. The initial response to the attack was shock sorrow and fury. And revenge was a common theme that was happily pushed by literally everyone. That’s why we don’t remember the people who pushed for war. We remember the few people who spoke out against it, even though it cost them their careers in many cases.
Americans can handle the shock and sorrow part of the equation. Americans have always struggled with the last one. We don’t forgive a lot of things. And the fury we can exact on our enemies is unrivaled. We conquered the world, in so many words, when they blew up our boats in the 40s. Go back and we exacted bitter revenge on indigenous people whenever they ambushed our settlers.
What about what I said is unamerican? Honestly the question is what liberal vault did you emerge from that separated you from our timeline?
Don’t confuse me speaking about reality as justifying it. I don’t justify my actions or those who influenced me. It was wrong. And I had to learn that the hard way growing up. But i am speaking about it as it was. You don’t get to change the past, you can only be honest about it and work to correct it when it comes around again.
The Israelis will commit the war crimes we only wish we could have this early after the attack. They will invade and end up fucked in a long term occupation with no real goal but a lot of house to house fighting and innocent civilians dead. Shit who does that sound like.
They’ll only succeed in giving birth to the next generation of even more extreme terrorists. The Middle East is just that much more unstable. We drone on towards unending chaos.
It’s turning out that the golden years of the 50s through tbe 2010s were the high water mark of human civilization. And we spent it bickering and smoking cigarettes.
Sick.
I was 14.
so that didnt change did it?
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Ooof a swing and a miss.
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Yeah no I mean it’s cool you and another guy have replied to me like 5 times each. That was certainly a choice you made.
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find everyone who upvoted this and ban them too. and yes, i dont believe in free speech. eat shit.
purge them all
You are my favorite of all.
your lemmy is like 4 people lol. those are my favorite.
We would have, and we’d be disgusting scum for doing so. We DID do so. And are.
Are you actually fucking trying to excuse this shit? Thats reprehensible
ArE wE ThE BAddiES?!?!??!?!?
You’ve misinterpreted what I said. That’s an issue with your reading comprehension not my morality.
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Again, you’re trying to shadow box with a boogey man that doesn’t exist. I’m just sitting here watching you write about how you’re a dumbass.
Cool I guess.
You know I spent ten years wasting my time clowning on trolls on Reddit. You get good at it, as sad as that is to write. There have only been a handful of people on lemmy that have even tried to do all of that here with me.
Do you think that we got addicted to it? I’m honestly just assuming you’re also from Reddit. Who knows maybe you communicate primarily by typewriter…
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I was waiting for you to post what I said broken into parts where you respond to everything separately.
First off you outed yourself. Hilarious. Second of all. Oh nevermind there isn’t a second part.
Lol.
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no youre just a piece of shit, maybe you can’t write coherently with your 14 year old brain.
“I supported genocidal rage, tried to psychologize and implicitly justify other ways to genocide, gladly accept and repeat the racist language of double standards that allows Westerners to pretend they don’t already support apartheid and genocide, but don’t you dare call me a Nazi.”
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I know we are currently in the ___ phase but where is the line drawn? Does this ___ justify genocide? Im not inclined to believe so.
The line is genocide, if nothing else. The blanks don’t matter. Your position on genocide should be 110% against it, the extra 10% (ideally more) being proactive measures to fight fascism to ensure genocide never happens again in history.
This is a horrible take.
I’m only allowing it to stay up because it’ll give others an eye opener of what Israel supporters are really like.
I’m curious, what exactly gives a sense of OP being an Israel supporter? I read the post as good pondering about the reasoning for Israel’s reactions and some good analogy for US readers through the 9/11 attacks and reactions for it.
It’s pretty much required that a nation will either defend themselves or even counterattack heavily if someone attacks them or otherwise they won’t stay independent very long (see Ukraine currently or Europe in 1930-1940s) and understanding that doesn’t make someone automatically a supporter of either side. Now, it’s a good thing to discuss about the size of Israel’s reaction because completely destroying another country over a terrorist attack is not going to end up well either. This is something where the 9/11 comparison works well in my mind.
ITT: People who can’t tell an explanation from a justification.
Go fuck yourself Bernie. You bowed to this. You endorsed this. You imperialist piece of shit.
At least Jezza stood for principles and went down for them.
For a public statement by a U.S. Senator it is about as critical of Israel anyone could expect. I would wager far moreso in fact.
Palestinian resistance: “absolutely condemn”, “horrifying attack”, “no justification”, “it must end now”
Zionists doing Nazi shit in Gaza: “a war crime”
Fuck off you old piece of shit
How would you describe it?
Akin to the Warsaw uprising. People facing extermination rising up hoping to avert ultimate doom at the hands of uncaring monsters.
They knew how outmatched they were, but the alternative is submitting to genocide. Think about the desperation required to take this nearly hopeless fight. The sheer suffering.
I would describe the actions of the Palestinians as, hmm, let me just do a stream of conscious word association here:
based heroic justified correct good successful hopeful kickass revolution freedom
Hey Bernie, you used to be cool, but it’s time for your dues as well.
Maybe he was literally sent loads of
in his e-mails too, lmao
