another EU win!!!
i hope they mandate RCS for buyphones, the pear company has been holding back technical progress worldwide
What is RCS for buyphones?
RCS messaging for iPhones. Apple is basically never going to do it because iMessage is a big part of the iPhone lock in.
I do miss being able to swap out a phone battery and this will certainly be a step in the right direction in terms ewaste and device longevity.
One thing that I wonder about is waterproofing or water resistance. Some phones are basically waterproof in shallow water. How achievable is this with a device with a trivial way to remove the battery?
The Galaxy S5 sport had a battery door and water resistance. They just used gaskets.
They can just seal the rest of the components exposing just a connection for the battery. There were water resistant phones before, the major reason they decided to make the battery unremovable was to make people buy new phones. Nobody wants to charge their phones multiple times a day.
People make this argument and barely anyone really uses the waterprooding features of a phone
I imagine water resistance comes in handy quite often for many people. It has certainly saved me countless times. Not that I need to go swimming or deep sea diving with my phone, but I have dropped phones in water, been stuck in the rain, spilled a glass of water, etc. I ruined many phones before it became common.
Water proofing is for more than just taking it underwater though. It’s also for getting caught in the rain, leaving it on a bathroom counter while you shower, or accidentally dropping it in a puddle.
My cheap not-waterproof phone survives mild rain just fine, as does being in the bathroom while I shower, or being in my pocket under very heavy rain.
Waterproof means it can be submerged, but most technology meant for daily use have a fair bit of resilence baked in…
You don’t ever really ‘need to use’ the waterproof feature on your phone. It’s more insurance for most people.
I have personally known dozens of people for who’m it’s saved their phone including:
- Dropped it in the toilet.
- Dropped in pool.
- Dropped it in the bath.
- Bag flooded when water bottle broke.
- Flooded when coffee cup failed.
- Rained out.
- Pouring rain on a bike ride.
- Pouring rain when needed GPS on motorcycles.
The above are things that happened both to people I know individually and also all of the above have happened to be at some point.
I don’t necessarily like the lack of being able to swap out the batteries for a cheap replacement but I do like that waterproofing to a high degree should be a default feature for things like phones. It could be argued to get waterproof cases or keep it in a bag and that’s all good and well (except the waterproof cases as they suck and break) but isn’t it nice for the default to be that the device itself is waterproof if that was an option?
You know, I really like my Essential Ph-1. It was a lovely little phone. I had the little 360 camera accessory that snapped on magentically and everything. It was so cool! Then, 1.5 seconds, dropped into water from which I grabbed it instantly, and it was done. No warranty coverage for dropping it in water, and zero waterproofing, and toasted phone. So, yes, more of us “use” waterproofing on our phones than you would think. The thing is that it didn’t need to be this way. There were waterproof phones back before everything was glued glass slabs all the time. Galaxy S5 Sport as mentioned by @HubbleST@lemm.ee above (and other “sport” edition phones). We have a lot of hygrophobic coatings and tech we didn’t have in the day of the Galaxy S5 series. We can do better now, if manufacturers are forced to.
I agree that is isn’t really necessary for mot people, but I do know quite a few people who use it because they know they know the phone will be safe. My partner uses her phone in the pool all the time. I’m often dripping wet after coming in from surfing, even after drying off with a towel. It is nice to be able to check my phone without worrying I’m going to mess it up.
I’m not saying it is a feature every phone needs, but it is something that some people use. I’m all for replaceable batteries and would like to see them more available. They will improve the longevity of devices as long as they aren’t damaged in other ways.
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This is my concern as well. Having a phone that is water and dust resistant is far more important to me than being able to replace the battery. I haven’t had the need to replace a phone battery in probably more than a decade.
Now make SD cards mandatory and you’ve got something really good.
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Although this is obviously a step in the right direction it needs to be followed up with security updates, no point increasing the life of the hardware without doing the same for the software.
Making it illegal to lock bootloaders would make each device community-maintainable.
Yes! That would be the best. We should have access to our hardware. And just like most things you want to keep around for a long time (e.g. cars) you will have to tinker with it to keep it running smoothly into old age.
While it is certainly nice to have continued support, I think I’d disagree that forcing companies to maintain software on legacy/outdated hardware is something that should be legislated. I think that would greatly stifle innovation in a lot of cases.
Hooray! Younger generations will finally be able to experience the joy of dropping their phone and having to pick up three to four different pieces! /s
(I’m all for this change, by the way)
Oh I remember that with Nokias. It’s like shock absorbing for cars lol.
And now they just have to force manufacturers to either at least security patch devices for, let’s say 10 years, or force them to open source everything the community needs to continue supporting this device. It never happened to me that the battery died before support ended.
Just had that issue with my Pixel 3a XL. No more security updates. Had to replace it with a Pixel 6a but I liked the 3a XL more. It there was any community support for the 3a XL, I would rather sell my 6a again.
As an Apple user, I definitely have batteries die before the product stops being useful. The company provides feature updates for old phones for several years, and when that runs out they continue to provide security patches for several more years.
A new iPhone battery is only $47 (if you do the repair yourself, and if you send your old battery back to Apple for a recycling credit), but it’s a pretty complex and arduous process with a fair chance of damaging your phone while attempting it. You also have to pay a deposit, over a thousand dollars, to rent the tools off Apple. Ouch.
You can take it to an Apple store, but that takes even longer than doing the repair yourself. And it costs more (though you don’t have to pay the outrageous deposit for the tools).
This legislation would force Apple to make it a simple process with no tools. Yes please.
Misleading title. Phones can still be glued. Waterproof phones still don’t need to have a user replaceable battery (the battery needs to be replaceable but by professionals).
Do you have a reference for that? From all the documentation I’ve seen elsewhere, that’s not true. There’s no exclusion for waterproof devices, and everything has to be possible with tools a normal person can buy (you might need to go to a local hardware store, but no unique specialist expensive kit).
The full law is here: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2020/0798/COM_COM(2020)0798_EN.pdf. It only mentions ‘water’ 3 times and none of them relate to waterproof phones (they’re talking about batteries of waterbourne transport & environmental impact of water use) so I don’t know where that’s coming from.
It’s totally possible to make waterproof phones with removable batteries - Samsung did it with the Galaxy S5 (IP67 - 1 meter under water for 30 minutes) way back in 2014 and there’s lots of other examples. It’s just not quite as cheap as glueing everything together.
Thank you for linking the text. For anyone wondering, here is Ch. 2, Article 11 regarding portable battery replacement:
Article 11 Removability and replaceability of portable batteries
- Portable batteries incorporated in appliances shall be readily removable and replaceable by the end-user or by independent operators during the lifetime of the appliance, if the batteries have a shorter lifetime than the appliance, or at the latest at the end of the lifetime of the appliance. A battery is readily replaceable where, after its removal from an appliance, it can be substituted by a similar battery, without affecting the functioning or the performance of that appliance.
- The obligations set out in paragraph 1 shall not apply where (a) continuity of power supply is necessary and a permanent connection between the appliance and the portable battery is required for safety, performance, medical or data integrity reasons; or (b) the functioning of the battery is only possible when the battery is integrated into the structure of the appliance.
- The Commission shall adopt guidance to facilitate harmonised application of the derogations set out in paragraph 2
“if the batteries have a shorter lifetime than the device” sounds like it could be exploited though, well folks the processor can only last 2 years on these new phones because of (insert random corpo bullshit here)
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2023-0237_EN.html#title2
- By way of derogation from paragraph 1, the following products incorporating portable batteries may be designed in such a way as to make the battery removable and replaceable only by independent professionals:
(a) appliances specifically designed to operate primarily in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion, and that are intended to be washable or rinseable;
(b) professional medical imaging and radiotherapy devices, as defined in Article 2, point (1), of Regulation (EU) 2017/745, and in-vitro diagnostic medical devices, as defined in Article 2, point (2), of Regulation (EU) 2017/746.
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You cannot have a consumer device at a reasonable price point, designed to provide water resilience, which also contains an open section to the power supply.
You certainly can. Look up any flagship smartphone and you can see that they provide water resilience and they have a charging port.
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Galaxy S5 did it.
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Honestly, with Apple making it incredibly fucking hard to take out their batteries with excessive amounts of glue, I’m okay with this.
Do they not have the tabs you can pull out anymore?
They do, but they’re incredibly prone to breaking when you pull and sometimes they’re just hard as shit to grip so you have to use a screwdriver to twist and pull.
I don’t think I need to explain why that’s so dangerous.
As someone who has changed hundreds of iphone batteries, the adhesive sucks. At least they changed to a different adhesive around iphone 8 because alcohol does wonders on it. I don’t even attempt to pull the tabs on those anymore.
May I ask how you do that? Do you just…douse the battery in alcohol? There isn’t much of a gap between the adhesive and the battery in my experience, so it just sits inside the chasis and rolls around. I haven’t had any luck with that but I’m probably doing it wrong.
I drizzle some in the corner and then use a sturdy tool to gently pry up on the battery to allow the alcohol to get deeper under. Since the adhesive patches are small to fit around the wireless charging coil, it doesn’t take much. Once you get one side of the battery loose the other will easily come with it, especially if the alcohol got to them.
If this goes through, I think it would be really good news. Battery failure is one of the leading things that force people to replace their smartphones, and having them be replaceable would go a long way towards making smartphones last longer.
If the manufacturer wants to force you to upgrade they still can… they can stop making the battery that works with your phone model (and notch them to make sure they can’t fit).
Back in the day there were some manufacturers that made batteries that worked with several of their models, Nokia was one of them, but not all of them did.
Even Nokia had a deprecation cycle for battery models and when that happened you were stuck buying crappy Chinese copies.
But they are replaceable in that sense. You can take it back the the manufacturer or to one of those independent phone stores and they’ll swap out a battery for you.
I don’t think a user swappable battery is actually a feature most users need. Not when smartphones get over a day out of a charge, you can charge at home, work or in a car, and external batteries exist.
That’s where I have to disagree. Perhaps in your country you have lots of OEM repair stores but where I live we have none. Only 3rd party guys who are totally independent.
I had a LG V30 in mint condition but the battery was done. No one has that battery and no one is interested in getting it because LG sold so few devices here. You can’t even find cases for most phones, only Samsung phones or iPhone’s.
So I had to get a new phone.
This is very common in most of the world, especially the Developing countries.
What phone are you using? Both apple and Samsung have made their devices borderline impossible to swap the battery out. They will then charge you an arm and a leg for sometime that used to be an easy swap.
My last phone bit the dust because I made the mistake of taking it apart to repair it. It became a gluey piece of garbage. If I want it be waterproof I’ll stick it in a sandwich bag. Or maybe the manufacturer can use the novel tech of gaskets.
Fingers crossed that this will be implemented well, im tired of having sleek electronics be irrelevant in 2 years when the silicon could go for 5 or six
The silicon could go on for decades if both the modem and processor were fully documented hardware that the community can access and support in the Linux kernel.
I can run a secure and current form of Linux on 30+ year old hardware if I want to, because the hardware documentation was expected by everyone at the time even if some end users were oblivious to what this meant. The whole reason google pushes Android is because they provide a base Linux kernel that hardware manufacturers can easily slip their proprietary junk into without requiring them to add the kind of open source code needed for mainline kernel support by the community. This is the mechanism that depreciates your device. It is totally artificial and an end user exploitation by design.
It’s usually not silicon on the PCB that fails, but the other electronic components (usually the capacitors) that fails first, and since they are surface mounted devices it’s really difficult to solder them by hand.
There are no electrolytics in phones, and most newer phones don’t even have tantalums. So long as there are no flexing stresses induced, which is nearly impossible with the way phones are constructed now, the all MLC capacitors construction has the potential to outlast any PC motherboard or laptop by a large margin.
The most critical issue is board connectors and moisture ingress. The USB-C connector or any other high pin density micro sized connector with a tiny pin pitch, and large electrical potential will fail from charge cycling and a resistance forming between pins. USB-C is particularly bad because reversing the connector doubles the number of pins on the board in a ridiculous amount of space. Just using a standard USB-C connector when ordering a prototype to be fabed at any common board house will double the price. The USB-C pin pitch is too tight for the most common fab process resolution.
I can’t wait to hear the Apple marketing word for this feature. They’ll add some gimmick like the battery is held in with magnets and say “We call it MagPack and we think you’re going to love it.”
Just as long as it doesn’t resemble what the poors would use. Yuck.
Fairphone 3 user here. My main reason to choose this phone a few years ago was because the battery could easily be replaced. Too many phones are perfectly functional but the battery is half dead. Another boon of non-glued batteries : You can carry two (or more) batteries to easily switch when the first one is KO. Meaning no need for portable charger and useless cables in your pocket. Phone at 10% ? Just change it, bam 100% in a second. Easy as that.
I’ll probably not be the target of such regulations because I wouldn’t choose an anti-consumer phone brand anyway, but at least it’s going in the right direction.
huge W
Do y’all remember the days when you dropped your phone and it exploded into 3 or 4 pieces? 🤣 Those were the good days.
Three. Battery, cover and the rest. Weirdly, no damage to the plastic display. How? I guess it was the
weatherbezelAnd when you scratched up the back you bought a new one for $12. No $200 glass or machined aluminum cases that we put $35 covers on just to protect them from every day use.
Well, it was plastic. Pretty hard to crack plastic like glass
