Seventy-seven percent of middle-age Americans (35-54 years old) say they want to return to a time before society was “plugged in,” meaning a time before there was widespread internet and cell phone usage. As told by a new Harris Poll (via Fast Company), 63% of younger folks (18-34 years old) were also keen on returning to a pre-plugged-in world, despite that being a world they largely never had a chance to occupy.
I call BS. I think this is something that people like to think that they believe, but they really don’t.
The first time they found themselves standing in the kitchen and thinking, “How long am I supposed to cook chicken?” and realizing the only way to find out is to clean up, get dressed, drive down to the bookstore and find a cooking-for-beginners book, they’ll be right back on board with the digital age.
Like, go watch early-seasons episodes of The X-Files and realize how many of the plot lines only work because the show started in a time that was pre-mobile phones, and then realize that kind of hilariously stupid and inconvenient situation was just, like, everyday life for everybody not so very long ago. Plan to meet a friend for lunch but they don’t show up? You can decide to wait and risk eating alone, or go home, because there’s literally no way to find out if they’re just running a little late or if they’re completely unable to come or what.
Sure, social media is a bit of a hellscape, but there is so much convenience that people take for granted that comes from cell phones and internet. I just do not believe more than a single-digit percentage of people would seriously enjoy going back for more than a few days, tops. No more than a camping trip.
Did you mean ride their bike to the library? Yeah. You’re right on the money.
Also cars were much less reliable back then. Nothing like breaking down again and walking to a payphone… and that’s just the beginning.Perhaps the key is keeping off of social media when you are recognizing it is making you feel bad. I really started having a negative experience with the facebook/Instagram stuff, but I have also found that more text based stuff that is discussion oriented doest make me feel bad. It does seem that the spulsucking stuff is key to making a platform profitable though. Oh well… I guess I will just have to keep using non profitable platforms.
I bet this is more about the stress of being constantly available to your boss, your parents, your teachers, your neediest friends than about wanting a world without technology.
I think you’re right on the money, I recently took a vacation and i had the luxury to turn everything off I wanted and truly enjoy it, most Americans can’t do that.
Euros don’t have to deal with that shit because they are smart enough to organize enough to end that crap.
I think it’s both that and not having real community ties. We don’t form close associations with each other like back when we had town events, neighborhood gatherings, people belonged to more clubs, recreational groups, labor unions, etc.
I wonder if there was an attempt to ask people about television, too.
True. Though we’re blaming the wrong thing in that case, we don’t have town events and neighborhood gatherings because local communities don’t have the money or a set town space anymore since the public square has been corporatized over the last few decades. Everything’s been monetized, loitering laws have criminalized just hanging out. Real life has the same problem the internet has.
Agreed. I think it’s more that we have been fooled on a superficial level into thinking that online interactions have filled the void (we’re on “social media” after all). So we still recognize that there’s something profound missing from our lives, but what that thing actually is has become kind of obfuscated. The dilemma then becomes whether to 1. blame technology, or 2. blame ourselves individually (“there must just be something wrong with me”). And either way it leads away from the radical solution of rebuilding those local, deep connections with our communities.
Do people really want to go back to the dark ages before Wikipedia existed? I know I don’t. Knowledge is power, and the Internet is a treasure trove of it, if you know where to look.
That said, I do want to go back to computers that obeyed only their users and no one else. Malicious hardware like TPM and Pluton is really scary.
I interpret this as really “people want to go back to a time before income inequality had ramped up as much as it has” but in their minds the overall feeling that the US is worse now for the non-elites is associated with other things
I think this is a part of it. Also, sprinkle in a good amount of wanting to go back to being younger.
But yeah, the golden era of the internet (whichever you deem that to be) felt way less fucky than what we’re dealing with now.
The people who think this apparently think the middle class lived differently than they actually did in the 1970s. I am solidly poor and lower class and I live better than middle class people did then.
Servers and service workers weren’t saving up and flying to Europe or South America back then.
And while poverty has increased and the middle class has shrunk, that isn’t necessarily because of income inequality. They are two different things. There is not a set amount of money or wealth that is divided up.Servers and service workers weren’t saving up and flying to Europe or South America back then.
They still aren’t. They’re barely keeping roofs over their heads, let alone taking expensive vacations.
And while poverty has increased and the middle class has shrunk, that isn’t necessarily because of income inequality.
I can’t think of any other plausible explanation.
I worked as a server and in coffee shops and yes, they most certainly are. Not all, but plenty. People generally fly to other countries much, much more than they used to. It’s not just the wealthy any more, at all.
undefined> I can’t think of any other plausible explanation.
Housing is scarce and much more expensive for starters. Middle class people like using housing as an investment and vote to keep housing scarce because of that. It’s not just the .1% that are voting for those policies.
China has a whole lot more income inequality too but much less poverty and a much larger middle class than before. The world as a whole does. Those two dynamics are not that related. Income inequality can grow whether the middle class is growing or not and can grow or decline whether there are more people in poverty or less.
The people who do don’t do research or use the internet to learn about stuff. Or just do “research” on Youtube/social media.
As much as I share your centiment about tech. I don’t quite realize how is TPM scary? It physically separates security important operation from the main CPU.
It doesn’t obey the user. There is no way for the user to examine the keys stored in it. The entire concept of remote attestation is disobedient to the user. And so on.
Do people not realize they can just log off? Go watch TV, it’s still there. Turn off your phone, it has a power button. Read a book or go outside. None of the pre-internet options have gone away.
I mean, yes, that is true for your spare time. But with the way things are working now, everything has to happen immediately, you might feel you need to be available 24/7, even if you don’t technically.
Work in general is more fast-paced because of it (emails and phone calls over snail mail), everything you do is attached to your phone making it difficult to turn it off (banking, cards, travel apps, dating apps etc).
In the purest sense, yes, you can take breaks from it all, but it’s still there, and while I don’t think it’ll happen anytime soon, I do believe we’d benefit as a society from being less chronically online (I say writing this on an app for a federated social media site, but y’know, small steps).
That’s a discussion about working conditions. Europeans aren’t having to put up with being available after work hours. Sane workplaces in the US don’t do that either.
Maybe I’m just lucky, but I’ve kept office hours for the totality of my career thus far, nearly 25 years. Most of my colleagues do as well. We all understand that we have lives outside of work, and that those lives take precedence. So long as we all get our shit done, nobody much cares about when you’re clocked in and when you’re not, outside of core hours (around 10 to 3 each day). If we want to turn off our phones, nobody much gives a shit so long as we’re back on the chat the next day.
It is difficult. Using corporate technology is easy and addictive. Not everybody is strong enough to escape from this comfort.
This is also pretty common. People tend to think like that about everything they had in their formative years.
It’s nostalgia plus a realization of how entrenched tech bureocratic processes have penetrated their lives, oftentimes making them worse, not better (many of the improvements are taken for granted).
But my point is you can take this “old times were better” in most of every case when doing these surveys. About music, TV and everything.
What people really want are the benefits without some of the cons that they’ve very willingly accepted out of laziness and/or ignorance.
They’ve lost a ton of privacy and rights and ability to discourse and act by being so heavily surveilled and “panopticon’d” into superficial uniformity of opinion.
Many of the things they complain about they can still do “non tech/non online” but it requires more effort than pretending that there should be just one way so they don’t have to choose.
I agree with the commenters who said people miss certain things but forget about convenience of the connected world. I wanted to add that people likely misattribute their nostalgia to unconnected world because they were kids. It felt great being a kid not because we were pre-internet, but because we were kids. We had no bills to worry about. We’d always have food. And that was the only food we ever knew about so we loved it. Our worries were to just have enough time in the day to play all the cool things with friends and explore the world. We didn’t feel guilty for just playing video games the whole day or hanging out with friends the whole day. Our bodies could fall from a tree and our bruises would heal in a week. We’d find a motherfucking ant and be fascinated by it for hours! Have you tried staring at ants now? It’s mindnumbingly boring. Of course we miss the way we felt when we were kids. Technology ha nothing to do with it. Every generation misses being a kid.
“middle-age Americans (35-54 years old)”
35 is middle-aged??
I’m 36. Been feeling midlife crisis-y for at least a year. My body’s on the decline (not bad but I obviously passed my peak), I’m terrified of illness, time feels like it has truly shifted into high gear. I’ve just been trying to embrace my middle age lol
Bloody hell. I’m 34 and might be in the best shape I’ve ever been since I changed my diet and started regularly swimming. My only regret is I waited until a couple of years ago.
American healthcare.
…my bones hurt, now.
34, here. I’m still a youth!! XD
Amen to that sister!
I like having the internet and technology. It’s the abusive use of it that I don’t like.I am also one who wishes phones were of no necessary use. Why do I need a phone number to sign up to an online service? Why must I have an email address and internet access just to see what lab results came in from the doctor’s office? What use is my email address being “real” to some online community and services? I would be okay in a world where the phone and emails were just a nice thing to have and not required. I understand that everyone is saying “just turn off the phone, watch tv, unplug the computer”… But with how just about every company in the world requires this to even function, it’s a lot easier said than done. I think the real thing folks on surveys like this are looking for is a world where the internet, phones, computers, etc are nice to have but not needed to live a life. Or maybe I’m just unique in how I feel, dunno, just had to share my thoughts lol.
For real. I remember when I quit Facebook I stopped getting invited to things because people would just make FB events and call it good. Like close friends wouldn’t even realize I didn’t know about an event. Even now there’s an outdoor events group I wanted to join but they only organize on Facebook and I don’t want to make an account.
I like the internet. It’s been integral in my life becoming myself. I’ve met some of my favorite people through it.
It’s my hope that the era of social media comes to an end and the internet transitions back to how it used to be pre 2008 or so (iPhone and Facebook changed things), less centralized and all-consuming. A return to smaller communities as opposed to these larger algorithmic, advertiser-servicing platforms. Discord servers and focused forums. Communities of friends over public places to chase clout. In addition to handy services like shopping, banking, maps, etc. In essence, the internet as a tool rather than a social expectation. Because in many ways it is a really powerful tool, and I don’t want to see that go away and I don’t think it ever will at this point.
There are cracks showing in the social media model, Twitter and reddit in particular at the moment, but it yet remains a hope that we can turn it back to a more positive thing in our lives.
Not to mention facebook the company (now meta) has been struggling too, losing ~75% of its market cap in the last few years… finally.
(TDLR: Technology (in its infancy) was something new, exciting, fun and enjoyable. Today, it is manifested more as an overlord whose primary capacity is to spy, intrude and take your personal information in order that they might gain from it.)
I grew up in a world before all of the modern day technology took over. They were good times, but when technology did eventually begin to develop, it effects were initially benign. It was initially adopted by those who were considered ‘geeks’ and people who were willing to spend money on it (even IBM clones such as the Tandy 1000 were going for $1,000 back in the day).
I remember when pagers were coming on the scene and allowed people to reach out to each other if they weren’t at home or at work (which were the only places they had access to a reachable phone number). It gave greater freedom for those who were in positions where they were on call 24x7 - it allowed them to go places and still be reachable instead of being stuck at home and waiting for a phone call that might never come.
Of course, things grew from there which provided many other benefits including access to a huge repository of information. Nowadays, that access to information has become a means of harvesting information from the very individual seeking to obtain it. The innocence of what was once revolutionary has been been upended by and ideology that has figured out and embraced how to consume its own consumers.
I spend more time today figuring out how to keep my data and personal information private and secure. Using Linux on my computer, running GrapheneOS on my phone as well as other considerations all in an attempt to keep at bay invasive companies and their ever evolving techniques in order to pry and spy upon me. It’s a shame that what was once fun and exciting is now something to be feared.
Today, it is manifested more as an overlord whose primary capacity is to spy, intrude and take your personal information in order that they might gain from it.
In other words, it’s not so much technology that’s the problem, but capitalism.
It’s not so much capitalism as it is a weakness of human nature. There are plenty of non-capitalist governments that desire to control, spy and manipulate their citizens.
That isn’t true. I use almost none of the large tech; no Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Google, or AirBnB. I pay the massive $12 a year for email that doesn’t scrape data because my privacy is worth it. It isn’t difficult, you just have to value your privacy and quality of life.
People prefer convenience, just like they choose fast food and processed food rather than cooking real food.
See y’all on @piracy.No, there aren’t. So called “socialist” or “communist” governments of countries are 100% capitalist. Capitalism is defined by the relations of production, not what a government or political party calls itself.
No, people choose to give up privacy for convenience. I use almost none of the large tech companies. No Google, Facebook, Microsoft, AirBnB, or Apple. I use Amazon once a year or two.
You don’t need it; people just care more about convenience, just like they choose fast food and processed food over cooking real food.I use them even less than that. But I’m not sure what your point is. My individual choice to use the services of big tech companies as little as possible has little to no bearing on whether they force themselves onto society, and give many people little choice in whether or not to use them.
I mean, I also try to get a new phone as rarely as possible, but my ISP requires me to use one—and not just any, but a new model (within the last 2 years) of “smart” phone that their own proprietary app supports—just to change the security settings on my router. And that is the most minimal example of how corporations constrain society to choices that benefit them and not us.
You can’t use your own router? That’s insane anyway. Changing the security settings by app seems like the opposite of security.
I understand what you’re saying but it doesn’t negate what I said. I have email, internet connectivity, and access to information and services.
Having a smartphone doesn’t mean you are forced to use it for Gmail and Facebook. I rarely use the internet features on my smartphone and manage quite well. I think people have allowed themselves to get accustomed to a lot of unnecessary shit.Sure. I largely agree. I think, though, that we need to recognize the systemic and economic pressures that result in that, not boil everything down to InDiViDuaL ReSpoNsiBiLiTy.
I agree and don’t think everything boils down to individual responsibility. That said, unless you want some elites deciding what’s best for all of us plebs, we have to make certain choices. And the people using services aren’t going to vote in the people who will tell them they can’t use them any more than people with low mpg cars and trucks are going to vote for people who will pass a carbon tax.
New communications tech is always disruptive. People rail against social media, for good reason. But the internet is far less disruptive, at least in the negative sense, than the printing press was. At least so far. Knock on wood. Not that Russia isn’t trying.
Why can’t you use your own router? Having to use their router is a huge privacy risk. Yeah, ISPs can already know your internet data but now they’ve got access to your device data too.
Yeah. I agree. Unfortunately this ISP sucks, and it’s part of the contract. Too bad I don’t have other choices at the moment.
Unfortunately this ISP sucks, and it’s part of the contract.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-76/subpart-P/section-76.1201
https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2016/db0510/DA-16-512A1.pdf
It’s unenforceable. FCC has mandated that users can supply their own modems and routers (including if the modem is provided for free). They must allow it. You can start an informal complaint with the FCC if they’re claiming that you must use their equipment. Usually gets the companies gears turning on the matter.
I feel like, for the 35-54 bracket at least, this must be less about giving up all the modern conveniences we have today but more about wishing they could raise their children in that simpler time. You don’t want your kids to be left out of what’s new and cool but you also don’t want them exposed to EVERYTHING these platforms bring. It’s a tight rope to walk and I’m not looking forward to it when my kids are older. I know a lot of people who have gone down the road of, “I didn’t have a cell phone growing up, my kids won’t either.” But it’s not very realistic in today’s world.
I agree with your assessment. I have a lot to say about this, and I’m glad to have found this article, as I’ve been having some serious inner turmoil about this lately, and this makes me feel a bit like I’m not totally alone or crazy. (But also I can’t find a link to the original survey, which makes it hard to trust, as I can’t find any description of the methodology or the exact wording of the questions)
I’m an older Millenial (sometimes consider Gen X, depending on the terminology used) with young kids. It’s true that I would rather have them brought up 30 years ago than today. Sometimes when I see posts about parents letting their young kids (like let’s say 10) have their own smartphone and then complain about, people get snarky like “You’re the parent. If you don’t like it, just take their smartphone away.”
But it is a tightrope to walk. I don’t want them expose them something like Instagram, which gives them eating disorders, depression, anxiety, chips away at their sense of privacy, etc. But I also don’t want them to be “the weird kid” who can’t relate to any of their peers. When I was growing up, I remember "the weird kid"s who weren’t allowed to watch TV, weren’t to play video games, etc. I can recognize that in many ways they probably benefited from not sitting in front of the TV for hours each day, but I can also recognize they probably didn’t benefit from not being able to talk to any of the rest of us about the latest episode of Fresh Prince. I do see it as a balancing act between teaching them that there’s a lot about their generation that sucks, but also letting them experience enough of it to see for themselves, and relate to the other kids around them.
What are you thinking you’ll do? How are you planning to strike the balance?
I don’t have kids and I’m not sure I will, mostly because I have a lot of un answered questions. How I would handle raising them with technology is one. So I’m curious, if you don’t mind sharing.
It’s a big question and I don’t think I can give an answer that will cover everything. A lot of it will depend on what they want to do, too. As long as we can have a real discussion about things beforehand, I don’t think there are many technologies or services that I would flat-out ban.
I’ve realized lately that a lot of the problems I have with how society at large uses technology is it’s not deliberate/intentional or thoughtful. I think if you’re going to buy a smartphone, or download an app, and click “Accept” on all the permissions, you should at least have a goal in mind before you use it. What specifically are you intending to accomplish with it? If it’s to stay in touch with your friend, that’s fine, just have that goal in mind when you’re using it. If it’s to follow the goings-on of your favourite celebrity, okay, as long as that’s your intention. But I think too often, people buy something or download and install something just because of FOMO or without any idea or understanding of what it’s going to do. It puts you in a passive position of allowing a large tech company to decide your use and your experience for you, and that might not be what’s best for you. That kind of passive exploratory attitude I think worked well up until the introduction of “dark patterns”, but it’s a bit dangerous now.
The other major thing is I want is to introduce them to community-developed technology first. Before they get to the point where they have to decide if they want to install Instagram, I think they should have experienced the Fediverse first, that kind of thing. I think they should understand that there is still technology out there which is completely good (by which I mean free/open source software and community services are sometimes useless, sometimes buggy, sometimes lacking in features, sometimes cumbersome to use, but they’re never antagonistic or evil or deceptive). At the very least they should know all of what kind of technology is out there for them.
Ideally I would also like them to understand how things work. My oldest is 4 now and can read a little bit. Not complete sentences or even long words, but enough that I know it’s not going to be too many more months before she’s capable of reading properly, and maybe typing, and maybe even some programming. A fair amount of software depends upon ignorance (remember when SnapChat claimed your pictures/videos “disappeared”?) and I think understanding of technology can help navigate bullshit a lot easier. But, a lot of that will depend on her and what interests her…
If you are longing for a world that you never lived in, there’s probably some “grass is greener on the other side” in play. The world before smart phones was considerably worse. I bet that most of the people who are asking for this don’t know how to read a paper map and have never seen a phone book. They aren’t considering getting lost or into a car accident and needing to find the nearest house to ask a stranger to call emergency services on their land line.
The good news is that, if you don’t want to use a smart phone, you can just… not. Nobody is forcing you. If you really wanted a world without smart phones you would already not be using one!
That’s not entirely true. I have twice in the last year had no other option than to install an app to use tickets I purchased. An many medical services refuse to do anything that isn’t online or via an app. It’s getting to be harder and harder to not need a mobile device. It’s getting pretty stupid. Theine has been crossed already. I lived half my life without internet, I’d survive without it. But the world isn’t headed in a direction that makes it feesible anymore unless you just completely check out.
Nobody is forcing you.
That is not really true, I mean depending on your definition of “forcing”. Okay, it’s true, nobody is holding a gun to your head.
But depending on where you live, it may be impossible to use a taxi. It would be impossible to work at a lot of workplaces. I work at a university where thankfully faculty are not required to own a smartphone, but students are (if you do not check in for attendance with the university’s app, you automatically fail the course). Soon here it might be impossible to have a bank account without a smartphone app. Any event that requires tickets, forget about it. We’re also getting closer to it being a requirement to see a doctor (some doctor’s offices here already do not allow any patients that haven’t installed their app, and the number is growing).
There’s a lot of soft pressure, too. The supermarket by us doesn’t require you to install their app. You can pay cash without a smartphone…if you’re willing to pay 2x the usual amount for groceries (which are already quite expensive).
undefined> if you do not check in for attendance with the university’s app, you automatically fail the course
That is completely fucked. I would refuse out of principle and demand an alternative based on my creed/religion. Linux is a religion, right?
I work at a university where thankfully faculty are not required to own a smartphone, but students are (if you do not check in for attendance with the university’s app, you automatically fail the course)
You could always not work/attend that school
I’ve been saying for a couple of years now that I think within the next decade there’s going to be a resurgence in “dumb phones.” And other methods of disconnecting from the web as people start to get fatigued from being connected to everything constantly.
I don’t think people actually would, if push came to shove. They’re just expressing nostalgia for a simpler time, which is pretty easy to understand, given all the dystopian effects of social media and smartphones.
I think smartphones have done a lot of harm, but they’ve still done far more good, which is why we use them. Especially in poorer countries where smartphones are often people’s only access to the internet.
That said, there’s nothing stopping any of these people in the article from being the change they want to see in the world. Not to send anybody to Reddit, but r/dumbphones is a fast growing subreddit for people that want to try that. A lot of the users are Gen Z who never got to try them and want to give it a whirl.
This is a chicken and egg problem, today’s Web is so horrible exactly because most of the boors in it treat it with disgust from the very first moment and try to avoid choices, thus make the worst choices possible.
I mean, it’s a golden rule - if you don’t know what to do, do something. They don’t out of fear, just consume what they are being given, which is the very thing they should fear.
Yeah, I think people forgot how terrible it was before email, gps, and etc.
Remember having to find the yellow book to call a plumber only to not get anything after trying 5 numbers? Oh wait, you don’t know how bad they’ll be because there are no online reviews. Memos from your boss via sticky notes? Faxing shit over and over again?
I mean, this study says it all, people need to be paid almost 20k to not use any online search for a year, almost 9k to not use email in a year. These services provide huge value for us in our daily lives. https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/how-much-are-search-engines-worth-to-you
It wasn’t that terrible but it was definitely slower. Some things for sure sucked. Now totally different things suck.
I have trying to find the poll by following link and found nothing but this.
According to a new Harris Poll shared exclusively with Fast Company
So there is no actual source, no ways to check if the poll actually exist or not, no way to check if poll’s question phrased in a way to get certain response, how many actually responded to the poll, etc. And, compare to most big news published poll result, a confidence and margin of error.
There for, I simply view this as click bait article to generate engagement, which it did.
It’s exactly counter to established research that places huge values on internet enables services.
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/how-much-are-search-engines-worth-to-you
18k per year valued for search engines, 9k a year for email and 4K a year for maps.
Of course framing might be slightly different, but getting people to saying thing is very different than getting people to put money where their mouth is. I would much rather trust the dollar signal, especially in the US.
