cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/26024422
Saikat Chakrabarti, AOC’s former chief of staff, thinks the Democrats need a bolder vision.
GOOD.
Pelosi has been in congress for 36 years. To put this in perspective, that’s longer than I’ve been voting. Time to retire.
To put it further in perspective, Nancy Pelosi isn’t a boomer. She’s silent generation.
Not so silent
She seems pretty silent on her inside trading.
But not silent on banning it, always voting no.
Needs to be updated. Gen Alpha is 2013-2024 and Gen Beta is 2025-current.
The other generations listed cover anywhere from 15 to 28 years. Why would gen alpha only be 11 years?
Have to ask Mark McCrindle.
I’m sure if you let them know, the folks at wikipedia will get on that. Have they changed the dates of the Silent Generation?
Stick to Chinese astrology or the Mayan calendar, at least they’re entertaining.
It’s longer than I have been alive. Some of my peers are raising children. She’s been in office for an entire generation.
Yup. Early forties here. Not quite there for me, lol
No matter, your view on her, it really is time to retire, she is 84.
It was time to retire 20 years past. It’s time to give back all the money she stole from her communities with all the insider trading bullshit.
Meh, I know I’m in the minority here, but I’d rather it was based on merit and policy positions.
I DGAF about someone’s age as long as they are still fit and they have the right policies. Assuming someone like AOC stays in until she’s 84 and shows no sign of moving to the right and no sign of slowing down?
Going forward, I think we will very likely have even OLDER politicos than we do now, assuming breakthroughs on slowing down aging, even age reversal. Of course, that assumes that Bronzo the Clown and fElon and Brainwormz don’t completely break our system of innovation and healthcare. But if it doesn’t happen here, it will happen in other countries…so I don’t think the ageism we see right now will itself age all that well…
I’d rather we judge on mental capacity and not on physical age (so that in theory wisdom is not lost), but there is something to be said for giving someone else a chance to drive the car.
The issue with lifelong politicians isn’t just their mental capacity but their lifelong detachment from reality as they live in a privileged bubble.
Wisdom can be written down, that would be more wise to do anyway.
Yes, but there is also Bernie. He is far more attached to reality than any young Republican in the Senate (or Democrat).
No one can argue with that, but the reason his name comes up every time is that he’s the exception, not the rule. His net worth is also a fraction of that of Pelosi’s or most of his political peers.
A ceiling on net worth for representatives is certainly an interesting concept, but not really relevant to the conversation.
It gets hard to show a correlation with time in service to detachment from reality when one of the longest serving members is the most grounded, and many of the youngest and most recent members are absolutely insane.
Even Pelosi is pretty progressive relative to the rest of the Democratic representation, and certainly of Congress as a whole. (Very feint praise given the field). She is certainly out of touch, but she was that way when she was far younger as well.
The issue with lifelong politicians isn’t just their mental capacity but their lifelong detachment from reality as they live in a privileged bubble.
The point of my net worth comment is that it’s part of her privileged bubble, and is one factor encouraging Bernie to be less out of touch.
I also think Bernie still gives a shit about the common person, and I don’t think Pelosi can remember any details of how the common person lives, based on many of her recent actions, including but not limited to this.
Ultimately my point is that citing Bernie is not (IMO) a reasonable rebuttal to the quoted bit at the top of this comment, and is very specifically not an apples to apples rebuttal of the Pelosi situation, even if he weren’t also a singular example.
Part of the thing about being young, is having drive to do stuff. Be it good or ill. The Geronocrats have no drive, so they can’t fight the pull of the Right Wing.
The problem isn’t with youthful Democrats, it is with the fact that the elders kept them out.
Bernie is (unfortunately) a rare exception.
Then demonstrate the trend to me. I’ve given you an undeniable counter example. I agree that Congress is out of touch. Are the older Congress members more out of touch than MTG or the psycho tradwife Katie Britt? I don’t think so.
And he’s acknowledged himself that he’s an anomaly in that regard.
No doubt he’s an exception, but where is evidence for the rule that would justify punishing the exception? When I think of out of touch Congress members, all the first names that come to mind are almost all among the youngest in Congress. Even Pelosi would never be on my short list if she wasn’t in leadership. (She is definitely out of touch, but she has some fierce competition). Also, all the older ones that I think of were just as bad or worse when they were younger.
Undoubtedly. However, a Bernie who retired due to age or term limits, would still be able to mentor upcoming politicians. Handing the helm to a competent person and training their successors would be a much wiser strategy than what we currently got.
Why the hell should we keep creatures like Pelosi, who exist exclusively to suckle from the fetid teat of the stock market?
Oh, we should definitely get rid of Pelosi, but not because she aged out. The Pelosi of 30 years ago was just as worthy of dismissal.
but their lifelong detachment from reality as they live in a privileged bubble
Does that include Bernie?
Wisdom can be written down, that would be more wise to do anyway.
Something written may not be read. Better to have both, the Wisdom at ground zero in real-time (especially if the feces is hitting the fan), and written down afterwards for posterity’s sake.
“Politicians shouldn’t be X”
“BuT WHaT aBOuT tHIs pOLiTiCIaN?”
“yeah, them too”
Literally every fucking time lmao
Well, when someone says that ALL of them live in a “privledged bubble”, and I can see with my own eyes some that do not, I’m going to push back against that b.s. /shrug
Metaphoricallyh speaking, people keep trying to treat Life like its an On/Off switch, when in truth is a Volume control/dial, it has variance.
Does that include Bernie?
That was a slam dunk because he’s the obvious exception.
And even then, should he stay? If we had more people like him to take the reins, i would be more comfortable having him retire. But everyone is susceptible to time. Without someone there at the right time we will have another RGB on our hands
Yeah, he could be an advisor to a younger progressive or something.
Does that include Bernie?
That was a slam dunk because he’s the obvious exception.
It also makes the point, and counters the previous point.
No, we need a physical age limit. Aside from needing to get new people in so that we can pass on institutional knowledge before their staffers are voting for them while they hang out in a nursing home.
The fact that we live in a gerontocracy is part of the reason we’re in so much shit in general. Why should the 83 yo senator from Bumblefuckia give a fuck about climate change, they’ll be dead way before it’s a problem. Why do they care about proper financial regulations when it might impact their ability to insider trade and pass off their unearned wealth to their kids.
Why should the 83 yo senator from Bumblefuckia give a fuck about climate change, they’ll be dead way before it’s a problem.
They shouldn’t. I wouldn’t consider them wise if they didn’t give a fuck about it. Wise people think of the future as well as the present.
Just for the record, I’m not defending her personally (hence my “giving someone else a chance to drive the car” comment), I’m pushing back against Ageism in general. Biological age is not always a good indicator for capability (see Bernie Sanders).
Not sure why people keep conflating age with capability/morality, they’re definately seperate things.
Not sure why people keep conflating age with capability/morality, they’re definately seperate things.
Because while they may be different things, but they’re absolutely not separate things given how age and cognitive decline are correlated. Because for every Bernie sanders you have multiple Feinsteins or Grangers that are at best not there or at worst hindering processes, holding up committee votes or taking up committee seats that could be used by someone who actually wants to improve things instead of making the line go up.
Bernie is an exception who proves the rule, unfortunately.
they’re absolutely not separate things given how age and cognitive decline are correlated.
Of course, degradation comes with age, but when I say they are still separate, what I’m saying is the degree of degradation is not exactly the same for every human being, but people judge ALL older people as having the same level of severe degradation, and that is Ageism.
Bernie is a proof of what I’m saying, that not everyone degrades at the same amount/rate over the same amount of time, and it is possible to have elderly people that are very sharp-minded and very capable of doing the job, plus having the wisdom of surviving those years and the knowledge they built up from doing so to be beneficial to the rest of society.
The prejudice of Ageism really shouldn’t be justified. Anyone over a certain age shouldn’t just automatically be thrown away, there are younger people who could have mental illness that are not capable of doing a job, so age does not directly relate to capability, physical and emotional status of the brain does.
Ageism already exists in the system and we don’t have an issue with it. It’s just okay to be ageist against young people.
We say younger people are not mature enough for certain tasks, but I know plenty of kids who are younger than the required age but able to understand and perform the same tasks. Does that mean we should let 12 year olds have drivers licenses? Are we just going to ignore these kids because they haven’t met a specific age criteria? Or are we going to say that as a rule, they don’t have the mental capacity to have that privilege/responsibility.
We already have rails in place for older people to have their driving privileges taken away, at the very minimum there should be one for government work. You keep saying this is ‘throwing away’ older people, when in reality, this is removing people before they do not have the capacity to do it themselves. No one is saying they can’t advise, but they absolutely should not be steering the future of this country. Because that’s how we get to where we are now.
Ageism already exists in the system and we don’t have an issue with it. It’s just okay to be ageist against young people.
I personally don’t agree with this at all.
I don’t judge younger people by their age. I look at their ideas, and consider those before passing judgment.
Actually there’s a lot of times where I see young people doing something that I would first think “wow that’s silly”, because I’m set my ways (which I fight every day to try and not be). But then I would actually give the young person some trust and the benefit of the doubt, and actually support them in their beliefs, in a “fresh minds, fresh ideas” sort of way.
My idea is when one generation gets older that they kind of become the assistants of the next generation coming up behind them, and then we just repeat that cycle every generation.
Ageism at any age is wrong, but I’ve seen it practiced a lot more against older people that I have against younger people (especially online), hence my initial comment.
Yeah, it’s not just mental capacity, her decisions right now no longer will affect her. We should have a younger people whose these policies will also impact.
Saikat Chakrabarti, AOC’s former chief of staff, thinks the Democrats need a bolder vision.
Fuck yes they do!
The message that could be sent by a champagne to kick NP out could start a left wing movement.
This is going to be a California Bubbly at best though. But they can be tasty too.
“I’ve got some news: I’ve decided to run against Nancy Pelosi to represent San Francisco in Congress. I know some of you might be surprised that Speaker Emeritus Pelosi is running again, but she is—for her 21st term!” Chakrabarti’s post read.
I fucking hate boomers in political office. They refuse to let go of the reins. They want to hold on until death. Selfish.
I saw a video last year asking people in the UK about USA politics and someone commented how old our leaders are.
I think she is too old to be a boomer, that generation was 1946 to 1964. She was born 1940
Yeah, she’s Silent Generation, same as Biden.
This strengthens the point being made though
Meh, it’s not the age thing for me. And I don’t care if someone works until they choose to retire, as long as the people want them. I think ageism and the appeal to some magical term limits thing is rather useless.
I hate just how disconnected her comment was about the insider trading. It’s infuriating. Republicans do it, too, but she somehow became the face of this.
I don’t know that her or others like her are doing anything to bring up the next set of leaders, though. I also don’t really see her fighting for progress. The age thing, the number of terms - entirely secondary and honestly, it’s just red herring in my view. All one has to do is look at Bernie.
It’s absolutely an age issue. When was the last time you met someone over the age of 60 who was both good with computers and technology in general and also has never worked in the tech industry? Id also love to see the number of government elected officials who have ever suffered any sort of real poverty and compare their ages to their peers. I guarantee that spreadsheet alone tells a novel.
I want to see an enforced retirement age, a maximum age for first time election, and a strict term limit for all positions of government. I would also love to see all elected and appointed officials stripped of the right to financial privacy and a sort of jury system of a quarterly ethics board made up of citizens chosen at random to make review decisions on official government actions.
It’s time citizens had more control over our government. They are employed by our tax dollars after all.
Eh, I dunno. I think the complaints about age and term limits should be cast aside. It’s red herring when it comes to the real problems we have. There is nothing inherently magical about age.
Right now, I’m watching the likes of Big Balls being given the keys to the kingdom, and even though they are 19, I see zero evidence they could give a rat’s ass about how anything works, even if they might have been considered good at one small aspect of tech. Even if they were a child prodigy at one sliver of time’s tech, it doesn’t mean they know shit about government, or even other aspects of tech if for instance that tech involves something like Cobol.
I also don’t think being good with computers or tech has much to do with being good at governance, and that’s coming from a life-long techie. I mean I would just love and delight in a world in which tech skills magically extrapolated to being good at everything else, but I just don’t think it works like that.
So even assuming a role like Big Balls and doge were something American voters actually wanted and was legal, I could care less if someone knows tech or not, if their motivations are warped and they have acquired zero wisdom and their platform doesn’t align with actual progress for the American people - they could be demons there just to dismantle government and too young to know the difference.
I think the age thing is a problem, if for no other reason than that very old politicians won’t have to live as long in the world that they create. Sure, for politicians of good faith, that wouldn’t matter much; but many of the ones currently in office would absolutely trade our future for their own temporary enrichment, knowing that they won’t be here when the chickens come home to roost.
Like I said, I think far too much time is spent on things that are really side-issues and red herring such as term limits and age.
You could have someone in their 20s (or whatever the minimum age is for a given position) come in there, still do insider trading, still do everything for the sake of the owner-donor class and then go through that revolving door into a cozy job within the corporate world as a reward for doing everything they were told in their single term and it would still be a huge problem.
Howling about someone’s age or how many terms they have served seem to just be a distraction from the real problems. To me, anyway.
Yeah, so we need to plug all of those holes, too. I’m not saying that’s the thing that’d solve everything. Just that it helps.
Term limits makes buying politicians more expensive and insider trading less lucrative, while containing the damage one bad actor can do. Overturning Citizens United makes it even more expensive. Switching from FPTP to ranked choice voting makes third party candidates more viable. Abolishing the Electoral College equalizes the value of votes between rural and urban citizens. Age limits make it so that politicians have to live with the consequences of their actions for longer. Expanding the judiciary makes justice swifter and makes it less likely that a politician who breaks the law can escape justice by being elected again.
There’s certainly not a magic bullet. We have to do a lot of things. I’d agree that age limits aren’t the highest problems on the list—but they’re on it.
Ageism is fun. And also hate, but also fun.
I don’t have much hope in the voters. Last time a great challenger came along, Shahid Buttar in 2020, they still elected the geriatric choice. The DNC and Dem voters are the fucking worst. I mean, as long as you pretend the racist, fascist, ignorant, magats on the other side of the aisle don’t exist.
You would think that the Democrat’s consistent record of utter failure would count for something, but I think it has the opposite effect. The worse things get, the more insecure people feel. Insecurity makes voters risk-averse. Republicans capitalize on that with calls for a return to an American that never really existed. Democrats capitalize on it by making Democratic voters scared of new leadership.
I try to explain it with AIDS as an example. AIDS is a horrible disease, but it doesn’t kill you. It just sets you up to die from another opportunistic infection like pneumonia. The fascists are pneumonia, and the neoliberals are AIDS. It’s the fascism that kills you, but it’s the neoliberalism that was the underlying cause that should have been dealt with.
Shahid Buttar
This dude fucking sucked. Like I’m glad pelosi got challenged, but he wasn’t the guy. I’m much more excited about Chakrabarti. Though that is mostly association with AoC and tabula rasa projection.
Incumbents are hard to unseat.
Especially someone like pelosi who has been around so long.
Especially if you’re a progressive running against a centrist incumbent.
I think that last line is in the DNC’s mission statement
Oh they acknowledge that Republicans are fascist bigots all the time, they just keep trying to work with them. Always trying to compromise with them instead of voting against them.
The Democrats need a vision, period.
Vision? How about we start with a pulse?
🤑
Term and age limits will be needed if the Constitution is improved, alongside ditching first-past-the-post voting. A great deal of America’s rot comes from the stagnation caused by career politicians who simply exist to occupy a seat.
Sure, we might lose ‘wise’ leaders, but it has become pretty damn clear that archaic politicians are the plugged toilets of Democracy. All they do is cause a mess if not promptly handled. The Geronocrats must go.
Fuck yes, let’s go with it!
- Politician age range 30-50
- Background check
- Minimum Education Requirements
- Understands science (including biology) and technology thoroughly at minimum high school level
- 200 hours of community service working with the poor
- 200 hours of community service working with the elderly
- 200 hours of community service working with immigrants
- Debt, Funding and Corporate Alliance check
- Blocked from stock market trades along with immediate family
- No bribes
- No Lobbying
- No ex C-STAFF for major companies.
- Paid enough to be single yacht and a summer home kind of rich.
What else we need in here or what have I gone wrong on?
The fact that this would’ve put Bernie out of a job years ago is a hard no for me. Campaign finance reform so we don’t have a bunch of corporate stooges in power, and getting rid of FPTP make more sense to me. Better alternative candidates will have a chance, as well as life-ling civil servants who are proven and lovee by their communities
A neat person like Bernie doesn’t have to be a politician to do good works. He can help mentor grass root organizations. While it would be a shame to lose a good guy from direct politics, it is far easier for evil politicians to stick around if we don’t force them out. A good guy is apt to step down from power when they think it is right, but an evil one? They won’t leave until carried out in a coffin.
Life long service or being old are not synonymous with being evil. You could also be forcing a dedicated good guy out with term limits and making way for an evil person
It comes from citizens united as well. We are a country whose government runs on bribe money and little else.
Why the fuck is this ghoul still running in the first place? Please primary her ass CA.
You think too much of CA. CA is INCREDIBLY liberal, so much of CA loves her and worships the memory of Dianne Feinstein.
Trump got 38% of California to vote for him last year. We are nowhere close to “incredibly liberal”. Also I hate Pelosi.
Undereducated people who can’t stand the cognitive dissonance of the liberal control of CA, paying lip service to issues that actually affect the working class while enriching the elites, restricting freedom and protecting the stability of the status quo above all.
She’s been fine, but it is past time for change
Pelosi has been a massive driving force in keeping the DNC from getting younger or less neo liberal. She has blocked committee assignments at every turn for more left leaning and younger congresspeople, most famously AOC. She is the head of the Democrat side of the absurdly corrupt insider trading gerentocracy of a Congress we have had for decades. The self enrichment is absolutely disgraceful, paying lip service to left wing causes while actively preventing meaningful left wing movement to take hold in the party and country. She and McConnell are two very effective leaders on either side of the same grifter coin perpetuating American neo liberal imperialism at the expense of the working class worldwide.
SF is incredibly liberal, I could absolutely see Nancy losing and finally being forced to retire. Just gotta get people out to vote during the Primary.
Pelosi was elected when she was 41-42. Saikat Chakrabarti is 39, so only a couple years younger than when Pelosi was put into Congress. This is the perfect time for her to be forced to retire.
SF is incredibly liberal
That’s the problem: Liberal = Neoliberal ≠ Left
The rich people who control just about everything LOVE her because her corruption enriches them as it enriches her and her stock broker husband.
The population in general, though? Probably much more progressive than Pelosi and will hopefully be heard this time.
A leftist needs to pull a reverse fetterman to get elected.
We should have all known Fetterman was a turncoat when the Democratic Party didn’t pull out all the stops to keep him from office.
SF is incredibly liberal
It really isn’t. Local politics in SF has long been a struggle between property developers and tech bros versus community-based groups. Pelosi, like Feinstein and Newsom, are from the corporate faction. And San Francisco has, over the past few decades, been changing into a theme park for trustafarians and high-tech drones, as artists, musicians and other interesting people have been priced out.
Surprising New Primary Challenger
That’s not that surprising. I was hoping it was like a golden retriever or something.
Natural progression of the Air Bud series.
Nothing in the Constitution says a dog can’t be speaker of the house!
Literally half the shit Trump’s team pulls (despite rulings saying otherwise)
Good! Fuck that old hag
Kick her the fuck out. Kick all the useless democrats out. Fuck all of them. They lost. They’re done. Go the fuck away.
Good.
Much like the appeasers that enabled Hitler, history is going to look back on Pelosi, Schumer, Kamala, Biden, Obama, Clinton, Jefferies, and other democrats who stood by and let all this happen on their watch without so much as a wimper.
Pelosi, Schumer, Kamala, Biden, Obama, Clinton, Jefferies, and other democrats who stood by and let all this happen on their watch without so much as a wimper.
It’s a big tent party of Chamberlains.
All these fucking useless Democratic leaders are so selfish. You’ve failed and failed over and over again, miserably, yet you still insist on trying to lead? Do the right thing. Step down. Quit. It’s truly disgusting how they’ve strangled their party and country with their incompetence.
And let progressives who actually have plans to stop Trump win for once? Never!
They do need a bolder vision.
The older vision is just MAGA-esque billionaire worshipping without the racism.
Without the racism yet.
