Mutual aid spam is becoming a problem on the Fediverse.
And to be sure, I’m not against mutual aid. What I am against is spam.
This person has not verified who she is – or even if the profile picture is hers. Additional research on her name states she is a scammer with a record of grifting. I am therefore skeptical that any donations will help anyone in need.
Folks, please be cautious with mutual aid requests. Yes, people sometimes need help. But people also lie.
@fediverse@lemmy.world
Yep.
I feel the fediverse should lean towards “overly aggressive” when combatting spam, before it takes root, even with all the negatives that brings.
I agree. E-mail is the original federated service. And 50 years later e-mail spam remains a big problem. I hope Fedi projects can get spam mitigations on-par with email before spammers start getting serious about this place.
I’d argue that telephones are the original federated service. There were fits and starts to getting the proprietary Bell/AT&T network to play nice with devices or lines not operated by them, but the initial system for long distance calling over the North American Numbering Plan made it possible for an AT&T customer to dial non-AT&T customers by the early 1950’s, and set the groundwork for the technical feasibility of the breakup of the AT&T/Bell monopoly.
We didn’t call it spam then, but unsolicited phone calls have always been a problem.
What we really need (and have always needed) is an update to the legal frameworks that classify what networks are and what protections are in place for users to ensure interoperability. The Internet has been the wild west for too bloody long, and the extractors and their monopolies need to be put away. That’s why they have been so happy to jump in with Donny Diaper at this point, because he’s letting them not only continue with impunity, but bring back company scrip.
Unfortunately, email solved the spam problem by becoming centralized AF. Now everything requires a “reputation”.
“Email solved the spam problem by becoming centralizing” yeah most of the spam I get is from gmail or has a reply-to header with gmail address
I don’t think mutual aid can work well like that on the internet. Works great in person, works OK for GoFundMe-type stuff like “I had something happen to me that will take a lot of money to fix”. Too easy to scam and grift for small stuff like this though, where for all you know they’re just a very clever dog on the internet.
Charity is not the same as mutual aid anyways, even though I have also seen “mutual aid” requests on the Fediverse that were clearly asking for charity.
How would you differentiate the two?
Can you just tell me lmao i dont wanna read an essay
Well you asked a question with a complicated answer. Dean Spade is a prolific and respected writer and organizer, and his thoughts on the matter are relatively concise compared to the volumes upon volumes written by his predecessors in anarchist thought.
im curious about they differentiate it themselves as a person not how an academic defines it.
Mutual aid is a form of [collaborative] political participation in which people take responsibility for caring for one another and changing political conditions, not just through symbolic acts or putting pressure on their representatives in government but by actually building new social relations that are more survivable.
Charity comes with eligibility requirements that relate to these moral frameworks of deservingness, such as sobriety, piety, curfews, participation in job training or parenting courses, cooperation with the police, or identifying the paternity of children.
Nonprofitization has reproduced antidemocratic, racist, and colonial relationships between the winners and losers of extractive, exploitative economic arrangements.The title already gives it away 😜
it doesnt and its why i asked lol then i opened the link and saw its over 10 paragraphs
Mutual aide is mutual
I for one am not willing to feed a milk-bone addiction, no matter how good a boy he is.
I don’t think mutual aid can work well like that on the internet. Works great in person,
That can be an incredibly privileged position to be in to say. Some people are in situations so bad in their meatspace life that “the random internet” is actually more trustworthy.
It might be better for them but it’s not better for the internet strangers, now there is an unknown beggar in their space.
That’s not mutual aid, that’s scam spam. Report it.
One problem with reporting private messages on Lermy is, as an admin i don’t see who sent the message. I only see who reported it. And i don’t have any actlon available, other than marking the report as handled.
with reported posts, i can ban the poster. With reported messages i’d have to ask the reporter who it was, trust their answer, search for the account manually and then i could ban. Not really efficient or fast if there ever was a spam wave.
of course sparmers could then just register a new account on a open instance and i might need to defederates which would lead to a fractured landscape of spammy open instances and likely inactive private instances.
there’s also not even rudimantary spam filtering in lemmy.
The main saving grace is that Lemmy is too small to attract a ton of spam yet.
maybe some of the above is just due my pick of clients (jerboa and the web interface), and there’s better tools? If so, i’d love to hear. But as things stand right now, there’s a lot to be desired
I wish I had approximately double the hours in a given day, and also vastly more coding skill to help in meaningful ways.
It seems sort of odd that comments or messages reported for spam don’t offer any tools. Even a simple url pattern match that gives mods/admins the ability to click a checkbox to remember the link and take some predefined action in the future would be a rudimentary but effective option.
I mean, heck, it’s the fediverse. In my fantasy implementation of an anti-spam approach, it would be possible to federate these lists of untrusted links and assign consensus-based confidence scores for links generated from moderator actions across instances. (With options for instance admins to tailor their own trust scores of other instances, so that each instance can choose for themselves who they trust, just in case a couple rogue instance admins try to poison the spam filter.)
Same concept can be applied to banned accounts, although in that circumstance, I’d suggest they find a way to mask the email address when sharing it. Not that folks won’t just spin up a new email. But, you know. Something is better than nothing.Hopefully that makes sense. I’m losing my mind with sleep deprivation.
Yeah, mutual aid works on the local level or in insular communities like long-term discord groups with a tight group of regular members. With community mutual aid, I’m generally in favor of just taking people at their word. If they say they need help, give them help. No need to interrogate them like the food stamp office will. You prevent people from abusing the system by simply not granting endless requests from the same person. Or if someone needs severe aid, at that point you can start actually verifying their story, helping them access government benefits, helping them find employment, etc.
But that kind of open approach works for in-person aid. It doesn’t work for anonymous online aid, where someone can use bots to spin up hundreds of convincing profiles each begging for money.
I just don’t think mutual aid works well in an online context. The only online context it works in is among communities like small discord groups where people know each other for years. But on a lemmy or mastadon-type service? Mutual aid is impractical. Any people asking for aid should be directed to local groups that can help them in person.
I see a lot of teenagers falling for the “I’m a Gazan and need help getting out.” accounts too.
I agree, and I believe that tapping in to and participating in local networks and groups whether they be fully or partially online and/or in person is beneficial for both ones self and ones community. It seems to me it will be these networks that make much of the difference between survival of large populations and large scale disasters. Community organizing is so important.
That’s not mutual aid that’s charity. Mutual aid is mutually beneficial to both parties.
How is this mutual aid spam? This is by definition not mutual. It’s begging.
Mutual aid is a common term for people in a group helping each other. It doesn’t imply reciprocal transactions. But by all means, let’s ignore the topic and pick apart the exact wording.
They might not have known what mutual aid is and you explained it very well with the first two sentences. The last sentence doesn’t serve any useful purpose if they didn’t know.
It’s not ignoring the topic. Mutual aid is an organized operation. Literally says it the link. This is not mutual aid. The topic is about “mutual aid spam” which this is not at all an example of “mutual aid”. This is just begging or panhandling or scamming.
It is “mutual aid spam” because I believe these are posted in mutual aid communities.
There is an entire sub on here somewhere that is only for mutual aid. The sob stories in there are batshit crazy.
@fediverse @atomicpoet Yep! Majority of them are questionable, even those who claim they were “manually” verified by some supposedly “well-known” person. Even in the ATmosphere network, it’s the same.
This is nothing, on hexbear there’s a person pretending to be like half a dozen different Palestinians with different fraudulent GoFundMe. They cook up a new persona like every other week using pictures they scrape from the media and then run it through an AI filter.
Same on Bluesky. And they are everywhere. Couple of years ago some accounts did this multiple times on Imgur. Even today occasionally some pop up again, but now the users are quick to call them out…with the admins doing jack shit. Which is classic for that site.
When coming across a sob story my knee jerk reaction is “bullshit”. If you want to give money to charity, do so through a reputable organisation. And don’t trust any rando on the internet.
Sorry but that’s just funny.
It’s like grifting Trump supporters.
@atomicpoet @fediverse THX for putting this clearly on the table, I had this scepticism for some time already …
@regineheidorn @fediverse Yeah, people I know boosted her messages—which implies they may have given her money. The thing is, that grifter’s success is going to attract other grifters if this problem isn’t addressed.
@atomicpoet @fediverse Yes. And we know this from the early e-mail days already …
Yep I’ve already gotten a couple messages like this with an image of a random lady attached:
Hi, I’m Nicole! I’m a proud Polish girl from Toronto (29 y/o)
I’m currently taking the pre-health sciences program at George Brown College hoping to get into the medical field someday!
You can add me on Friendica: [REDACTED]
and join my discord here: [REDACTED]
Hi, I’m
Nicolewizardbeard! I’m aproudaromaticPolishAbyssalgirltube sock with googly eyes fromTorontothe space between your walls (29 y/o50 ft)I’m currently taking the
pre-health sciences program at George Brown Collegesocks from your dryer hoping toget into the medical fieldfind a broodmother for the spawn that will form the ranks of my holy army someday!You can’t add me on Friendica. It’s far too late for that. Far far too late for anyone to do anything to stop this.
Your socks may be returned to you but they may never be the same.
I only ever got one. I feel so rejected!
I got one about an hour after I made my Mastodon account. found me pretty fucking fast.
😭 I didn’t get any. Why don’t Polish egirls like me?
I was just offered 500$ to be someone’s friend. Of course, I refused - my friendship is worth much more than that!
But it’s… concerning that we’ve got this sudden spike in spam.
Tell them I’ll do it for $495
I’ll be their mate if they pay me £400.
The great thing about the fediverse is that it is harder to censor: as long as you find one instance where you can publish some information, you can publish it.
The bad thing about the fediverse is that it is also harder to moderate: as long as a spammer or troll finds one instance from which they can send unwanted messages, they will be able to send them.
In the long run, whitelisting may become the norm for federation instead of blacklisting.
…
What kind of friend are we talking about?
Is it weird that I’ve never heard this term “mutual aid” before this thread but apparently everyone here knows all about it?
Anyway. There’s just no way I’d give real money to someone asking for it like this because for every real person there must be a dozen scammers at least. It honestly seems crazy to me that this could work and people could send money.
If people are giving money away like this then they’re part of the problem IMO. You’re encouraging scammers, and perpetuating the practice, diverting money away from the people who actually need it.
It isn’t really that odd, considering you’ve only been here a couple of weeks. Mutual Aid is a foundational idea in most if not all anarchist projects and theory.
There may be many scammers, yes, but the goal remains the same - get help to those who need it from those in a position to give it.
As for being part of the problem, I must disagree. Scammers aren’t leeching just this, they’d be present in any system purporting to help others (in gov’t systems this is called fraud), the goal of these grassroots aid projects is to help those who fall through the cracks of more formalized systems and decentralize some aid in case the church/NGO/gov’t can’t or won’t help (see the Hurricane Helene/Katrina responses when FEMA is overwhelmed).
Means-testing recipients is kinda a dick move anyway: those who have demonstrable need will have a harder time getting aid and time/money that should be spent helping are now spent with verification.
Hah.
I’ve probably been kicking around the fediverse longer than you, it’s just this particular account that’s only a few weeks old.
Anyhow, feel free to continue giving money to people asking for it on lemmy i guess.
Fair 'nuff. I hadn’t really considered an alt account.
Is it weird that I’ve never heard this term “mutual aid” before this thread but apparently everyone here knows all about it?
May be an American thing? I don’t know have never heard of it or encountered it.
It’s a very terminally online leftist thing. You would see it in communist/anarchist leftist spaces, people retweeting posts of disabled/neurodivergent people asking for help with rent.
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with it, and kudos to those who donate. But it quickly turns into a popularity/disability contest of who can fit the most disability categories in a GoFundMe.
Aha. I consider myself leftist, but not in the ml corner. I had never encountered it.
Cheers for explaining!
Mutual aid is not giving random internet assholes money because they begged for it. I’m not saying they should be banned from doing so, but calling it mutual aid is 100% a scam. Mutual aid is given freely, within a pre-established network.
Hosting a friend on your couch for a week cause they’re in between apartments is mutual aid. Feeding your friends without expecting anything in return is mutual aid. Enabling e-begging is not mutual aid.
I first heard it in 2019 or 2020 from the queer community but I have a feeling it has deeper roots
Who is seriously stupid enough to fall for this?
My cat just died chewing through the power cable on my graphics card so I need a new 5090, please help brother
I can mail you a brand new cat. Good enough?
Careful! Might be a bobcat.
Ssssshhhh…
Dear brother in Christ I appreciate your generosity, is it a Siamese cat? I have allergies and the graphics card helps to clear the hair.
No Siamese. Just some mongrel off the streets.
May you be blessed for your generosity on this day! I would love to receive your cat, however in my village there is a small fee for the postage of the animals. I am, of course, willing to cover the fee - however it must be sent to the village post centre by Western Union transfer by the sender. If you send the $3500 I will reimburse you.
Oh no! Sadly, I cannot. Maybe go grab another kitty from the shelter. Good luck!
Dear comrade Laser, ✊★🚩
the fascist Melon Muskrat needs to be destroyed. The last couple of weeks I have been practicing propaganda of the deed and marked Tesla swasticars appropriately all over my state. Here’s a photo with proof of a recent artwork of mine.
Fighting this essential antifascist fight in these times of techno-feudal-nazi takeover costs me a lot of time and also money for supplies like spray cans, bus tickets, burner phones, and now also legal costs.
Last week the fucking pigs (ACAB) caught me when a petit bourgeois snitch reported me and now I’m in legal trouble. The class traitors now want to squeeze 3500 $ from me.
Your solidarity and mutual aid is essential for me and my comrades to continue the fight against tyranny. Every little thing helps.
Revolutionary thanks and Antifascist greetings
Secure Monero XMR transfer:
monero:83XjbrEebhaZjgyVYZUjsZ4cF43UhQNHKBd6UUqPwmEuGLEoDGs67ebMg7nDLnj65bCsqKfPwGzuR3a1318u4fQbMWV8U4xYou can send it using https://stealthex.io or https://changenow.io for example with a credit card or if you own other crypto.
no pasarán. hasta la victoria siempre. ✊
@fediverse@lemmy.world
Whoa, is this from Mastodon?
@Feathercrown@lemmy.world No, this account is specifically from Akkoma. I have also submitted posts from my Pixelfed account.
I can submit a post to Lemmy by mentioning the community handle in my post. Such is the magic of the Fediverse.
