I have no doubt the EU won’t have much mercy for American corporations going* forward.
My phone REALLY wants me to type gong. Gong gong gong gong gong.
bro be like
Gong gong, gonging gong gong!
Go ahead, this is a safe space. Get it out of your system.
Hopefully this actually leads to something lasting, but I don’t have high hopes considering how Europe is getting dragged atm
I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging “only” 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
There isn’t really any getting away with. If what Apple does is within the law then the EU can’t prevent it. I’m sure somebody is looking into preventing Apple from doing it, but propper legislation takes time.
There isn’t really any getting away with.
But they are. Right now.
propper legislation takes time
They should have thought of that when they created the legislation.
Maybe Nintendo, Sony and MS will be next?
I want a 3rd party store on all my consoles, why can’t I?
Not skilled enough hackerboy 😉🫶🏻
Mod your damn consoles!
While I don’t think people get consoles without homebrew being unlocked first it is still better for homebrew to be unlocked on day 1
It will also give the possibility of open development
😮how got my obviously joking answer so many down votes??
Of course it would be better if the console come open already
I personally just love the hacking part of following hacks.guide
Finally. We all about to see better prices and more features. If this ends in lower app store fees, its a massive win for every app company in the world!
Most every major company tries to build a walled garden. Apple does so via apps and services, services like netflix do by making sure you can’t watch shows on any other service (arr!), or even something as simple as cordless tools that have proprietary batteries and chargers where it gets really expensive to have to buy different batteries.
Destroys their entire business model 😂
Their entire business model has been to focus on systems that lock people in and exclude people who are out. None of this is done for security or as a means for the best possible customer experience. It’s done for the sole purpose of forcing income they couldn’t achieve with innovation alone. I’ve heard so many tech reviewers and even my own personal friends who say they would love to switch if only to try something else. They say they’d switch today if their friends, family and coworkers wouldn’t get mad at them. Apples only real innovation over the past ten years has been built in social pressure.
This is why the only Apple product I’ve owned was a free iPad. It feels claustrophobic to be trapped in their ecosystem.
The only Apple product I’ve owned was my first smartphone an iPhone 4, Never again.
Trying to get my family to use signal and its like pulling teeth. “Dont you want to be on the same messaging app as everyone”, “sure but you’re the one with a problem”
Mate, I only have a problem because of you!
Well, they did get them to switch to USB-C, so I’m not holding my breath, but I do hope that this will lead to more interoperability. I’m tired of Apple making Android/non-Apple users feel like second-class citizens.
I have to agree. Switching to USB-C is a big step, but I doubt Apple will become more interoperable unless they are forced to.
I still don’t think that one was actually the EU’s doing. Macs got USB C before most PCs, iPads had it for a long time before iPhones, and iPhones switched over 10 years after Apple announced lightning saying it would be their connector “for the next decade”
Apple got an special exemption the last time the EU standardised the port to Micro-USB.
The writing would have been on the wall for them. Especially as thunderbolt 3+ uses the USB-C connector, there was no guarantee the EU would give them exception again, and lightning is almost certainly not designed to handle the wattage needed to charge a Mac.
But otherwise, if not compelled, I doubt that Apple would have carried it over to the mobile devices. The timing is fortuitous, but likely because Apple has a little leeway before the EU forbade their devices/fined them for not following the law.
Even then, for whatever reason, a (grantedly cheap) 3,5mm->USB-C adapter my dad bought didn’t work at all on his iPhone while it works just fine on my Android
I was so hyped when the EU pressured Apple into allowing external software on Apple devices.
Apple killed that hype making the change EU only, problem is I’m encapsulated in the walled garden with an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Air Tags, HomePods.
Thinking of getting a second phone Android based to partially-escape the garden but if I ditch my iPhone all hell will break loose network wise.
I was you up until 3 months ago. I went nuclear and focused on the more open source side of android and have been so much happier for it. Sold everything to afford the changes.
Huge win!
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There should be a porn movie with that headline
It’s a shame Epic lost this lawsuit in the US because “just switch to Android”
Not the biggest fan of this tbh. People who want open standards should just not buy iOS devices. It’s not that hard.
Oh no, not more freedom and rights, please no!
I’m not affected by this in the slightest, and I do not think people that buy iOS devices will care about their newfound freedom
Yeah, most Apple users won’t care or even know, and will just keep using whatever it is that Apple gives them. I don’t see how that’s an issue.
Meanwhile, people who are at least slightly more informed will benefit from the freedom. Things like this are needed because informed consumers too are getting shafted in about every product category. Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
There are also those of us who like some Apple products but do not buy them because of the walled garden. The EU might improve choices for us too.
Voting with your wallet doesn’t work in a market dominated by uninformed consumers.
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I don’t see how we need to regulate something that doesn’t benefit anyone as everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
… then maybe the people should just get more informed.
I hear they also made crimes illegal. Problem fucking solved.
doesn’t benefit anyone
But it does? Some Apple users will try something else, and even if you aren’t one of them, these practices spread. When Apple gets away with something, others will follow. Android is also getting more locked down with each major release. Maybe you use a linux phone or none at all?
everyone is uninformed anyways and probably doesn’t even care?
The fact that this issue is being discussed by us here and meps/commissioners/etc. at Brussels is proof that not everyone is uninformed and don’t care.
What’s to gain by not regulating this? Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse? You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level? Everyone should suffer because iphone users are dumb?
Do you want the world to collectively suffer from products that are artificially made worse
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
Android is also getting more locked down with each major release
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
You can say that ignorant people deserve what they get, but do the others deserve to get dragged down to their level
Nobody is affected by apple devices getting locked down except apple users, and they chose that.
I want a world in which corporations are scared to release anti-consumer products because they know it’ll tank their income.
I wish. Celebrating customers getting shafted seems counterproductive though. In reality, companies aren’t afraid of making anti-consumer products. Regulation can keep them in check and consumers sure as hell won’t.
There’s stuff like graphene or other open source OS’s - installing graphene is literally connecting your phone to a PC and opening a website, something even a chimp can do.
I know, I run a custom rom too. I also know that custom roms are still Android, meaning they aren’t safe. What do they do when Google makes some restrictive bullshit change again, for example to the android API? Fork it and become incompatible with apps meant for stock android?
Nobody is affected … except apple users
Yes they are. All large companies are constantly looking for more things they can get away with and are ratcheting towards user hostility.
When the non-hostile options are gone, or reduced to a few crappy ones, the educated consumer is fucked. Because what else are they gonna do, not buy a phone? How is a chimp gonna install Graphene when unlocked bootloaders are extinct?
Oh they do. They love type-c.
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Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm. The more we fuck Apple, the less other companies think that it’s OK to fuck consumers.
Companies that do anti-consumer practices shouldn’t think it’s the norm
Yes, and they would know if people would start voting with their wallets.
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit, it’s a myth corpos are telling people so we regulate them less. They have so much power to inject themselves into human’s lives, make themselves part of your existence. You can for example try to walletvote Microsoft out of your life whatever the fuck you want, while you were trying it, they bought a politician or twelve, and now they’re part of your government, your education system, your military, and your finance sector.
While democracy still exists, the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations.Exactly this! Capitalism without regulation leads to dictatorship of few cooperations that have the power to let you starve, if you not comply.
How do people not see that?!
Voting with the wallet is mostly bullshit
Disagree completely. It’s the most effective tool we have to control corpos that does not rely on another entity.
they bought a politician or twelve … the only way to fight corpos is the governmental power or regulations
So, you yourself say they buy politicians, but in the same sentence, you want the people they are buying to fight their power with regulations?
Do you see where you went wrong here?
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform? This literally affects people’s professional relationships and close personal connections.
No my friend, Apple has perfected lock-in and turned it into an art. Just because it doesn’t affect you doesn’t mean it’s not an issue.
You can see how much of an impact this has - in my (rich European) country only 30% use apple devices and everyone uses WhatsApp for communication (also not good but far better than imessage, and there’s a slow shift towards signal happening)
How do you leave when your friends, family and coworkers are all on iMessage and refuse to use anything cross platform
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
That’s what I did when ditching whatsapp. Is it easy? No, ofc not. Ditching something for moral reasons is never easy. Do you think it was easy for me to ditch microsoft for linux when I started out? Hell no. But it gets other people to think about it. Some will laugh about it and say: “haha my funny nephew who wants to save the world himself (insert laugh emoji here)” while other will be genuinely interested in why you made this decision and might follow it. That’s how you get people to think by the way.
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
“Hey, since I don’t want to use apple devices anymore because the company sucks, I’ve decided to ditch it, therefore, I will not longer have access to iMessage. If you need to contact me, you can use XYZ (insert alternative here) or just call me/send a SMS.”
that only works when a majority of them relies on you. That’s rarely the situation in reality
Pretending like you need a specific messenger like iMessage for communication is dishonest at best and straightup stupid and manipulative at worst.
thinking like this is ignorant at best and intentionally manipulative at worst
That’s the whole point, when you do useless shit like buying from one corpo instead of another, they only need to buy couple of politicians to succeed. The only way for you to combat it is to elect politicians they can’t buy and apply political pressure to the rest of them, so they can’t buy them all. If instead of that you play their game and try to outbuy a corpo that owns half of your country already, not only you will lose every time, you are actually doing exactly they want you to do.
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is about this, not anything else.
The whole point of a walled garden is to stop people (their wallets, really) leaving.
Not only that, it’s also to prevent outside entitys from “hunting” on your playground.
That doesn’t really change anything - you can switch from iOS at any time if you so desire. Most people just find it too inconvenient.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you. There’s a whole reason IT exists because people are fucking stupid and do stupid shit with their freedoms. This, in turn, can really hurt others (viruses, worms, botnets, etc) and opening things up really just means larger attack spaces with many more vectors for entry.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers. Doesn’t the whole of Lemmy bitch about what we’ve done here in America because of being uninformed? Same principles apply to even lesser things like tech.
I literally don’t understand the people downvoting you
That’s just the lemmy hivemind. Nothing to really worry about. When leaving reddit for lemmy, I was 100% expecting that one thing to stay, and I was correct.
I understand the wallet holding aspect, but we should be expecting informed decisions from consumers
Absolutely, I totally agree with that - I’m very sure that many problem we currently have wouldn’t even be a thing if consumers made informed decisions and not ordered everything off amazon because “it’s easy lol”.
This is such a lazy argument, it doesn’t add any kind of value and it shows you don’t care about how other people are treated. Please stop doing this.
you don’t care about how other people are treated
True, I do not care about how apple users are treated. They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
If we talk about restricting stuff like rent, food prices etc, so essentials, I’m on board. But Apple? Nah. Nobody forces you to shell out that much money for a smartphone.
a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
Anti-competitive and monopolistic, sure. Anti-consumer? Eh.
Don’t get me wrong, Apple is just as evil as the next guy. Their practices reinforce their market position in an insidious way. But in many respects Apple performs better on the consumer front than, say, their primary competitor Google. Not in every way, but I wouldn’t call their devices “anti-consumer.”
If one of your primary concerns as a consumer is an open platform then yeah, I can see you rejecting outright Apple devices. This could in turn lead to being dismissive of the concerns of those whose priorities differ from yours, though I would strongly advise against such a lack of empathy over something as insignificant as a platform choice. Regardless, curtailing their practices is still important.
If we don’t stop bad behavior because it doesn’t affect us directly, we set bad precedents. Regulatory actions are an important tool.
If we talk about restricting stuff like rent, food prices etc, so essentials, I’m on board. But Apple? Nah.
Fallacy of relative privation. “X is worse than Y, so Y doesn’t matter.” Rent and food prices are important, too, but regulatory bodies don’t operate on a zero sum system. Multiple things can be addressed with multiple efforts. It’s not like the EU is saying “we can ignore starvation and homelessness because at least we cracked down on Apple.”
Anti-consumer?
Inventing your own “standard” and forcing everyone to use it (lightning and webkit) and preventing consumers from having their device repaired from anyone else than a “certified technician” at 4x the markup is definitely anti-consumer.
But in many respects Apple performs better on the consumer front than, say, their primary competitor Google.
Google pixels are not OEM-locked and I can easiely install graphene or any other operating system on them. In the smartphone category, google is the only good vendor, ironically. I bought a used pixel 6 2 years ago, flashed it with graphene and it’s the best phone I ever had.
Regulatory actions are an important tool
Yes, but they’re the last resort. And it should be treated as such. If apple had like 90% of the market share, okay, we can talk about regulations, but right now, apple only has 1/3 of the market, so people can still easiely choose any android device.
It’s not like the EU is saying “we can ignore starvation and homelessness because at least we cracked down on Apple.”
I never said that. I said that these are cases where I would support drastic regulatory actions because this is no longer within the rules of supply and demand - people can’t choose to “not eat”. People can damn well choose to not buy an apple device.
Inventing your own “standard” and forcing everyone to use it (lightning and webkit)
It’s like people don’t remember history anymore. WebKit was a joint venture between many groups. It wasn’t “inventing your own standard” any more than any web browser engine. The restriction to WebKit on iOS devices can be frustrating, but this practice is anti-competitive.
And Lightning replaced another proprietary port, the iPod 30-pin connector. That 30-pin connector was born in a time when standards for device-side connections were not very often utilized. Many devices used proprietary connectors. When Apple transitioned away from the 30-pin, the industry at large was operating with both Mini-USB and Micro-USB, which were both straight-up inferior to Lightning.
The problem with Apple and Lightning is that they didn’t drop it when they should’ve. When USB-C became the clear de facto standard, and they began transitioning all of their other devices to it, they should’ve moved the iPhone over and bit the bullet then. Not doing so, and continuing to charge for MFi certification was, again, anti-competitive. But the existence of Lightning wasn’t anti-consumer.
preventing consumers from having their device repaired from anyone else than a “certified technician” at 4x the markup
Right-to-repair is an important issue and Apple are really shitty about it. I agree. They are not unique, and this also needs to be addressed.
Google pixels are not OEM-locked and I can easiely install graphene or any other operating system on them. In the smartphone category, google is the only good vendor, ironically.
Like I said, “in many respects.” For your use-case, one that you must admit is infrequently utilized, statistically speaking, Google makes a better product that fits your needs. The vast, vast majority of smartphone users are not flashing alternate ROMs to their devices. Most people aren’t power-users, and even most power-users don’t bother. That’s not to say your use-case isn’t meaningful; I’m glad there are still solid options available for a world I used to be a part of!
People can damn well choose to not buy an apple device.
Sure, but does that mean Apple should be allowed to get away with anti-competitive behavior? With practices that seek to force others to use their systems, or to keep users they have from exploring other options? I don’t think so. Bad business practices need to be addressed regardless of whether users have an option to look elsewhere. Especially when the company has a sufficiently large percentage of the smartphone market to force developers to work within their walled garden to hit target audiences.
The problem is they have critical mass so developers are forced to target iPhone. Its a natural monopoly.
The US won’t care as well since they benefit.
Dunno about that critical mass, iOS only has 1/3 of the market in europe while android has the remaining 2/3.
They have - voluntarily - decided to buy a device that is known to be anti-consumer.
Many Apple users bought their devices before they were aware of Apple’s user look in tactics, let alone how they could be problematic. Most people are not into tech, so they wouldn’t know. Data on tech illiteracy.
Except it is that hard because companies collude and work to drive the competition out of business.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
I know you ca try and install other OSes, but that isn’t an option for many, as many manufacturers make acquiring root access impossible.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in. Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone.
People are not born with knowledge.
You say that until Google realises that there is no other viable alternative and so they can do the same thing since it’s not like there is another option.
Not entirely. I’m fairly sure that, if google decides to lock down pixel devices, the graphene team would evaluate other devices that are more open. The reason they recommend pixels is because they are open, not because they are big google fans. Graphene DOES run on other devices aswell, it’s just not officially tested or supported. And there are other devices with unlockable bootloaders, most noteably older oneplus devices and fairphones.
You answer is basically a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who bought an iphone before they knew about the things Apple did to keep users looked in
No, my answer is a big “go fuck yourself” to everyone who voluntarily decides to stick with apple devices despite knowing of their practices. Let’s be honest for just one second: Barely any consumer is so tied into an operating system that it would prevent them from switching. What do most people do with their phones? Listen to music, have a messenger, maybe check emails, browsing - that’s it. And you can do that on any other phone. The amount of people that are apple power users that use applications that only exist in the apple ecosystem is abysmal and largely irrelevant in this discussion.
Same goes for the acquiring root access on an android phone. People are not born with knowledge.
True. Neither was I. But in 2025, we have the internet and you can read up on almost anything imagineable. If I wanted to learn about astrophysics, I could find plenty of videos or resources about it. If I want to learn about japanese history during the sengoku period, there are a lot of resources about that. And if I want to learn how to unlock the bootloader of a phone and install a custom rom, not surprisingly, there are resources for that.
This “People are not born with knowledge” argument is so stupid - nobody is born with it, the problem is just that most people are too lazy to learn about their possibilites to break free from oppressing corporate conglomerates. And THAT’S something I have an issue with.
I completely agree with you. So many phones are business tools. Forcing your employer to use the App Store is good. Side loading fly by night bullshit is a risk and lack of oversight the world just doesn’t need. If you want that stuff get an android.
This is very bad. Their walled garden is perfect for the young, elderly, and stupid.
Hopefully some competitor arrives to replace them.
Walled gardens are not good for anyone.
Apple is free to sell phones where walled gardens are allowed. You’re also free to stay in the walled garden, Apple lied to you.
Yeah because using Android is so difficult
If but perfect you mean perfectly exploitative, sure. The walled garden issue has nothing to do with ease of use my friend; in fact, the whole point is to do the opposite - make anything outside the wall impossibly hard to access or use.
No one is forcing you do use apps outside of the app store. It’s about choice.
If such a competitor emerged they’d not be able to trade in the EU, given the size of the EU economy that ain’t happening.
It is not the walled garden that makes it easy, I mean, only because you open up doesn’t mean that your costumer still can buy only apple and it just works…
You’re right, they are like a bike with training wheels, helmet, and pads.
