• ssillyssadass
    13•4 months ago

    Computers have been dumbed down and simplified for the masses. When I was a kid a computer did not cooperate until you raised your voice.

    • @IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works
      8•4 months ago

      I do industrial programming. Everything is so far behind that yelling at the “computers” does nothing. Physical violence is just about the only thing they respect.

          • @IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works
            0•4 months ago

            If the magic smoke comes out, that’s entirely the electrician/electrical designer’s fault. Their circuits shouldn’t have let me do that.

            • @bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
              1•4 months ago

              Hey now, the NEC provides ample protection against user stupidity, and I do my damndest to take it a step further. If a user is able to do something so catastrophically stupid despite me better engineering efforts, perhaps they should read up on darwinism.

              Signed, an electrician.

    • @mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      2•4 months ago

      Yeah, newer generations have been raised on tech that “just worked” consistently. They never had to do any deep troubleshooting, because they never encountered any major issues. They grew up in a world where the hard problems were already figured out, so they were insulated from a lot of the issues that allowed millennials to learn.

      They never got a BSOD from a faulty USB driver. They never had to reinstall an OS after using Limewire to download “Linkin_Park-Numb.mp3.exe” on the family computer. Or hell, even if they did get tricked by a malicious download, the computer’s anti-virus automatically killed it before they were even able to open it. They never had to manually install OS updates. They never had to figure out how to get their sound card working with a new game. They never had to manually configure their network settings.

      All of these things were chances for millennials to learn. But since the younger generations never encountered any issues, they never had to figure their own shit out.

      • @merc@sh.itjust.works
        2•3 months ago

        It’s not so much that the tech just worked. Often it doesn’t work. The difference is that when it doesn’t work it’s not user-serviceable. Up until maybe 2010 or so, when things broke there was often something a user could do to fix them. But, especially with the introduction of locked-down mobile phone OSes, that’s not true anymore. Now it’s just “wait for an update”.

      • @Zeddex@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0•4 months ago

        Or reinstall the OS on the family computer because one of your dumbass siblings downloaded a sUpeR cOoL song from one of their friends on MSN Messenger.

    • @samus12345@lemm.eeEnglish
      1•4 months ago

      It was always a struggle to get the damn thing to do what you wanted it to. It turned out to be a good thing long term.

      • M137
        -1•4 months ago

        Even as a teenager (didn’t have a computer before that) I had infinite patience with computers, you can fix/change/make anything with enough time, nothing will be better if you get mad and ignore reading and making sure you understand what’s happening. Seeing how young people handle tech now is fucking depressing, they just click past everything without reading, get mad and rage quit after 30 seconds of something not working and think anything that’s more than two clicks/taps is too complicated.

  • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️English
    5•4 months ago

    I can:

    • Accomplish damn near anything from a command line
    • Write machine code
    • Remember a fairly broad swath of special character altcodes without looking them up
    • Disassemble damn near any computer or other machine, and stand a good chance of putting it back together

    But also:

    • Use modern programming languages, including object oriented paradigms
    • Actually read what is on my screen and comprehend it, including error messages
    • Understand and operate any arbitrary interface without having to have it explained to me by rote

    Behold my mixture of skills, and tremble.

    • @TheEntity@lemmy.world
      6•4 months ago

      Can you summarize this in a vertical video? I stopped reading after the third word, I’m here for memes, not to read a damned book!

    • @otacon239@lemmy.world
      1•4 months ago

      The day I started learning Regex was the day I felt like I was really learning computers. I went from 2 hour tasks to 15 minutes.

      I doubt you’d even be able to reasonably explain what they are let alone how they work to the average person outside the Millennial generation.

      I fear AI data processing will replace much of the Regex skill set. Why learn Regex when the computer just does it for you… 🙄

      • @mearce@programming.dev
        2•4 months ago

        I agree that regex is an important thing to learn. Not sure any old LLM would do a very good job, and I hope that no tool replaces people actually learning how to write regex.

        I’m not sure what you mean about the average person outside the millennial generation not understanding them, though. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I don’t think the ‘average’ person in any generation knows what regex is. Unless there is some reason the average millennial was actually exposed to them and forced to understand them?

        As for being doubtful that anyone could understand them aside from a millennial, I assume you’re being hyperbolic? Sort of sounds like “Kids these days can never learn what I learned!” (I’m teasing).

        Anyway I’m in agreement with you. This thread did remind me of a pretty neat project that, while still requiring domain knowledge, could save some time and be a good learning tool without being as fallible of a crutch as an LLM.

        Have not tried it, and am not an experienced developer, so I am curious to your thoughts/criticisms: https://github.com/pemistahl/grex

      • HaroldEnglish
        0•4 months ago

        You just made me realize the Zoomers are actually much closer to making Warhammer 40k a reality. IT engineers are like Tech Priests to these Zoomers.

        • @mitchty@lemmy.sdf.org
          1•4 months ago

          If you’ve never read it Vernon Vinge a fire upon the deep had a type of programmers in the future known as programmer archaeologists. The tldr is nobody wrote new code just dug up old code and bolted it together. I used to think that was silly, after llms lately and dealing with interns I no longer think of it as fiction.

          • @Ghostbanjo1949@lemmy.mengsk.org
            0•1 month ago

            I’ve always viewed programmer archaeology is just trying to understand your old code or the team you are working withs old code and also trying to understand the why it was done this way.

            I think AI coding is a programmer archeologist based on your definition, and I think I may start using that now.

            • @mitchty@lemmy.sdf.org
              1•1 month ago

              I mean it’s kinda both, I just thought the idea a bit preposterous but as time goes on that book gets closer to reality.

        • partial_accumen
          1•4 months ago

          I don’t know much of Warhammer lore, so I had to look up tech priests:

          "No longer the master of its creations, the Cult Mechanicus is enslaved to the past. It maintains the glories of yesteryear with rite, dogma and edict instead of true discernment and comprehension. For instance, even the theoretically simple process of activating a vehicle’s engine is preceded by the application of ritual oils, the burning of sacred resins and the chanting of long and complex hymns. "

          Its clear to me the author of this block of text was having trouble starting his vehicle’s engine, and was pissed off when he/she was asked to put in a ticket before help would be rendered to the him/her.

          • @Genius@lemmy.zip
            0•4 months ago

            he/she

            What’s this nonsense? Why don’t you just say “they” like a normal person?

  • Chloé 🥕
    4•4 months ago

    in today’s edition of “why are the kids I raised so damn incompetent?”

    i long for a day where people understand that it’s not the ipad kid’s fault they were given a tablet at age 2

    • @chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      1•4 months ago

      That’s… part of it, but part of it is just ease of use. In growing up, I had to figure out issues with my computer,and getting games etc working took some work to do. I build a gaming PC for my nephew(under 10, but games a lot mobile and with consoles) and he played a few games on it, but then my sister (a gamer herself) said he couldn’t really get used to keyboard over controller (at which point I reminded her she could just get him a PC controller or use one of the console ones that also work on PC).

      He just seems to prefer to use things that are already intuitive, and since my childhood things have gotten much better in that regard for consoles and mobile stuff. You can definitely do it on PC as well, but it often means more accessories, sometimes figuring out issues . I got another sister of mine a controller for pc and it took a bit of effort getting it properly synced for the game she wanted to play. It would show up properly in the OS, but then the game he issues, so we had to switch through modes and such, and sometimes even though one mode may work an update or something may break it.

      I like using controllers for some games, and WASD for others, but even though IT is my job and I’m good at fixing things, some games have weird issues with some controllers, especially if they have mode options. All that extra fixing and finding the right settings is just frustrating for some, and with easy to use alternatives they may not bother to learn. I had no choice, just SNES and pc while growing up.

    • @Default_Defect@midwest.socialEnglish
      1•3 months ago

      No one taught me how to use a computer, I figured it out as I went. I had to tell my 25 year old brother that theres more than one USB port on the back of his computer because he only saw the one in the front and asked me where he plugs in the keyboard and mouse.

      Part of the issue for a lot of the older and younger crowd is “Well, it’s not immediately obvious, so therefore its impossible and now I’m mad at you for it.”

  • @tantalizer@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3•4 months ago

    The amount of my students that wrote the whole email in the subject line is crazy. At first I thought it was a mistake or something. But there are sooo many…

    They also don’t know what a file browser/explorer is. As soon as the download notification is gone, the file doesn’t exist anymore.

    Giving files proper names? Unheard of!

    • @SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works
      0•3 months ago

      As soon as the download notification is gone, the file doesn’t exist anymore.

      That seems to be how Android literally works though.

      • @real_squids@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        2•2 months ago

        If you get an actual file explorer it’s fine. I’m using a fossilized asus one because I got used to it years ago.

  • KillingTimeItselfEnglish
    3•3 months ago

    > be me
    > zoomer
    > use linux
    > i use linux
    > i don’t know how to use windows, or macos
    > i dont know how to use the most popular operating systems
    > wait
    > i am the joke now

      • KillingTimeItselfEnglish
        2•3 months ago

        literally (i use arch btw also), though my server runs on debian, so i have that under my belt.

      • KillingTimeItselfEnglish
        2•3 months ago

        listen man, if you’re going to hire me for an IT position, you better assume i will do nothing other than linux, unless you want to pay me a lot more fucking money, or want me to be very mad, all of the time.

    • @blitzen@lemmy.ca
      1•4 months ago

      Probably. But if I’m being generous, we’re really only talking about younger X and older millennials.

    • MochiGoesMeowEnglish
      1•4 months ago

      Hahaha its funny each time that happens.

      My uncle is GenX and way smarter than my millennial ass. They paved the way for child free poppin off and being tech savvy with a normal tech free upbringing.

      Anecdotal I know. But always funny how self centered us millenials can be thinking were the last normal generation.

  • @shads@lemy.lolEnglish
    2•3 months ago

    OK so I have a pet theory about this. I grew up in a period when computing involved friction and lack of ready resources to ease that friction. Solving problems involved actual research, in the research process more and more details of how computers operate were exposed to me. I had the time and focus to learn and the motivation to stick at it when it was difficult. I then did something horrible to almost everyone who asked me for help, I removed that friction.

    With the noblest of intentions I prevented everyone around me from experiencing that friction, I made it easy. Consequently I caused those people around me to miss out on those basics I struggled with. I uncovered the arcane lore of endianess so everyone around me who wasn’t already an adept would be spared. I plumbed the mysteries of the parallel port so that others could use a printer with only mild mystical invocations. I immersed myself in SCSI termination so that my friends and family might partake of IDE (retroactively named PATA) in peace.

    I came from an era of computing where these things mattered (at least to some degree) and they moulded me and shaped how I use a computer to this day. My brothers will always be dependent on myself and my ilk to act as guides and so much of what I know is functionally useless today so a neophyte could not follow the twisted path I did.

    I was blessed as well to come of age in a time when a computer was a comprehensible assemblage of parts, when I could identify at an IC level the components of it. I feel like that is what is missing in the modern incarnation of technology. I also worry this is where we stagnate, the field is too large for anyone to compass it entirely and we splinter in to specialisations.

    However this is also a sign that technology has come of age. I am certain, absolutely positive, that if I was to pick an arbitary topic, say music, I would seem as illiterate and helpless as the Zoomers we are bemoaning as mere consumers of Tech. I can enjoy a piece of music, I can even take a rough stab at the rusiments of how it is made. Ask me to explain the nomenclature of a time signature on sheet music and I will look the dunce before I finish the first sentence.

    So maybe we should give them a break and realise that for a lot of them, It… Just… Isn’t… Important…

    They will learn this stuff if and when they need to. Otherwise “magic box does things when I perform this ritual” is enough for them to function in their world, the same as “Car starts when I turn this key” is enough for me to function in mine.

    Holy crap, I wrote this on my phone, what is wrong with me?

    • Prehensile_cloaca English
      1•3 months ago

      Nah, no breaks. Their ignorance is the foundation upon which further learning will stumble.

      Is it their fault? No. But neither has it been Millennials’ fault for inheriting a vast slew of fuckery dropped at our feet since the late 90s.

      Baby Boomers ARE the culprits in most cases, but they’ll never accept their roles in destroying the greatest and broadest reaching wealth engine in the modern world.

    • @the_q@lemm.eeEnglish
      1•3 months ago

      Fun read, but the zinger of “it… Just… Isn’t… Important” really damages your argument.

      The difference in knowing how our technological systems work versus just using them is how you wind up in a world where capitalist rule, intelligence dwindles and choice is stolen. We’re seeing these effects in real time. And it’s just not technology; take the electoral system here in the US. It stopped being about the functions of our government and became flag waving and baby kissing. Now our tax dollars kill children, the rich are all but unstoppable and we’re at each other’s throats all because we, collectively, let the systems work without understanding how and why.

      Tech today being a glass and aluminum block feeds our lust, insecurity, inequality, comparison etc all in an effort to generate wealth and further divide, all by design. Didn’t you think it’s very important to know that?

      • @257m@sh.itjust.works
        1•3 months ago

        As a zoomer (17) I kind of agree but I really don’t think its that deep although big tech does seem to profit off people’s incompetence. Yes kids my age know very little about the computers they use. Hell most kids don’t even seem to know where their files are or how file paths work. I recently in Comp Sci class had a kid look at me confused when I mentioned the folder he was looking for was in his home directory. The dumbing down of Tech is definitely a culprit. Not always even in ways that the tech easier to use. Finder on MacOS outright hides things from you on purpose like file paths and being able to access arbitrary folder on your system. There are a considerable amount of features locked away in the settings menu where the vast majority of people will never even look. I highly think all of this is malicious as it severely degrades user experience and sets them to fail in the long run. Don’t even get me started on the whole random files will end up in ICloud/Onedrive and there is nothing you can do about it.

  • @BalderSion@real.lemmy.fanEnglish
    1•4 months ago

    I remember watching an interview with the CEO of SUN microsystems in the 90’s argue that you didn’t need to know how to run a nuclear power plant to use a light switch, and you shouldn’t have to know how a computer works to use one.

    I guess his vision came true, and we’re mad about it?

  • Lovable SidekickEnglish
    1•4 months ago

    lol did you get this from whoever posted it an hour earlier? Or did you just both get it from the same place?

    • @cm0002@lemmy.worldOP
      0•4 months ago

      Crossposted from them as part of ongoing boycotting efforts against the .ml instance.

      Though it doesn’t show in this case because they put the image link in the body, and I really hate that, so I fixed it on crosspost lmao

  • @Vespair@lemm.ee
    1•4 months ago

    I think Zoomers need a generational divide in their generation, tbh. In my experience, older Zoomers are intelligent, capable, motivated, and largely leftist. For some unknown reason though, younger Zoomers are ignorant, prudish, too easily contented, and weirdly conservative. I have yet to understand what happened to cause the divide, and I can’t point to any stats or evidence to support this belief, but anecdotally I have noticed this trend within my own life and spheres of influence.

  • WolfmanEightySixEnglish
    1•4 months ago

    Are they the same generation whose parents said “they’re really good with computers …they go on the iPad all the time”?

  • @TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
    1•4 months ago

    Me: Behold!

    *quickly presses Control+V

    Classmate: Woah! How did you do that??!!!

    True story but as a millennial teaching another millennial in college.