Why does the Democratic party have a hard on for running failed politicians? Kamala lost, let others step up. AOC would do great in the Dem Primaries
So tell me why? Explain it like I’m a 6 yo. What exactly is the appeal of AOC? Someone who once aligned herself with two antisemites? She’s not a Senator, she’s a representative for New York State. Does she have the same appeal as David Hogg? Strike me down and call me a conservatard (I’ve never ever voted Republican) but AOC is a gaffe machine, but somehow it’s on purpose? Can we talk about Ilhan Omar and Rashid Talib? How the fuck did they ever become Representatives for Minnesota and Detroit…yeah I know it’s been a minute, but this is the Democratic Party…how did Leftist get so confused that they felt the need to support right wing religious nuts? You know what I talking about right? You could take your average everyday Muslim and a white supremacist and ask them both how they feel about women/jewish people/gay people and you’d get the same answer. Did AOC support the striking train workers in 2022? The union for the rail workers never really got the deal they wanted. What does AOC stand for exactly? Just the typical Gen Z talking points? “We gotta support drag queens in libraries!” Yeah, I’m an old fuddy duddy who thinks that identity politics is a losing battle, maybe if everyone can get under the umbrella of the idea that billionaires are working to ruin this country? Maybe we can talk about wealth inequality and how no one who is working class can afford anything? Housing prices, rent, basic living income and basic standards for ALL human beings? I love Bernie Sanders, god bless him, but AOC and Bernie spreading whatever message they are is falling on deaf ears, the ears of middle America. I’ll take my beating now
Yeah, I’m an old fuddy duddy who thinks that identity politics is a losing battle, maybe if everyone can get under the umbrella of the idea that billionaires are working to ruin this country?
If that’s how you feel, you’re supporting the wrong people. It was centrists who turned to identity politics to hide their lack of an economic platform. Remember when Hillary said breaking up the big banks won’t end racism? Remember when the new DNC chair said they would still take money from good billionaires? If you want Democrats to focus on the billionaires ruining our country, AOC’s your best bet.
I love Bernie Sanders, god bless him, but AOC and Bernie spreading whatever message they are is falling on deaf ears, the ears of middle America.
10K showed up for them in Michigan. 12.5K people showed up for them in Idaho. 30k showed up for them in a Trump district in Montana. Doesn’t seem like it’s falling in deaf ears, but maybe your right, and the Democrats should just not try to win any states in the middle of the country. I’m sure that’s a great strategy.
What does AOC stand for exactly? Just the typical Gen Z talking points? “We gotta support drag queens in libraries!”
You could take your average everyday Muslim and a white supremacist and ask them both how they feel about women/jewish people/gay people and you’d get the same answer.
Get fucked, bigot.
Yep, this is the kind of ad hominem attack I would expect. You think I support Hillary Clinton? What Do you think that Centrism is about exactly? Is your righteous anger going to change the world? You’re adorable
LOL, yes, you got an ad hominem attack in response to blatant bigotry. Comparing all Muslims to white supremacists doesn’t warrent debate, but it does deserve ridicule and contempt. You also ignored a bunch of facts that contradicted your wildly inaccurate statements on who was promoting identity politics, which factions of the party were actually standing up to billionaires, and how successful the Sanders/AOC tour is in middle America, but those challenged your worldview, so you couldn’t acknowledge them. Anyway, keep punching at the left-wing of the party while the Democrats try to run the same strategy put Donald Trump in the Whitehouse twice. I’m sure you’ll change the world by losing every election!
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American Muslims, in line with general public attitudes in the United States, have become much more accepting of homosexuality over recent years…In a July 2017 poll, Muslims who say homosexuality should be accepted by society clearly outnumber those who say it should be discouraged (52% versus 33%), a level of acceptance similar to American Protestants (52% in 2016). Source
So weird that you distinguish between Christians and Christian fundamentalists but assume all Muslims are fundamentalists. It’s almost like you have some sort of bias or prejudice against Muslims. It’s like you’re a person who has bigoted views. Wonder if there’s a name for that?
Nope you’re right. The Muslim world just wants to get along with everyone else. Their prophet Mohammed Was a person of peace. He wasn’t warlord who married 6 yo girls . The all Muslim countries are safe for queer folk and women have the same rights as men. I’m so sorry everyone I’ve been wrong I am just an ignorant person and I’m very sorry. The Islamic world 1.8 billion strong doesn’t have any extremists in its fold and has never ever done anything violent ever. I can only pray to Allah that my comments, which are completely genuine and true, don’t get taken down again by the moderators
“Here’s a long detailed rebuttal to your badly informed opinion.”
“Ad hominem!”
Reddit and its consequences was a mistake.
So you think being called a bigot for criticizing religion isn’t an ad hominem attack? Okay It’s not a badly informed opinion, It’s one that doesn’t automatically align with most left wing talking points that are basically just about identity politics. I bring it up because it’s why Democrats continue to lose. Defenders of AOC sound like Swifties. I like Harris but she doesn’t have to be the only candidate and neither does AOC. I’ll state it in plain English and maybe you’ll understand? Islam is a religion, it’s not a race or ethnicity. When I criticize the rules of this religion, which is Sharia law, which contradicts democracy in this country and is unconstitutional it doesn’t make me a bigot. Everything that have stated here in this thread is part of the reason why Democrats keep losing. The majority of Americans are tired of extreme left wing politics and policies, and it’s why we keep getting extreme right wing politicians who win elections. You can tell me I’m uninformed all you want, call me a bigot, whatever… But come 2028 you’re gonna get president JD Vance and VP Elmo. If it comes down to it and AOC is chosen as the Democrat nominee, I will gladly vote for her, but she can’t win, she isn’t electable and it isn’t because of sexism
AOC is a gaffe machine
I actually think she’s pretty well spoken. A lot of people clip her just to farm outrage, but honestly, we’ve seen (especially with Trump) that out-of-context clips don’t really shift public opinion much anymore, they just reinforce whatever people already believe.
You’re quite lost in the sauce if you think all AOC is about is “identity politics” and “drag queens in libraries.” I know someone already dealt with you, but you told on yourself by even posting those things.
Ok look I voted for Kamala but if a candidate fails can we please run someone one else? You don’t run the same person over again because the same people who felt like she was forced down their throats are still going feel like she’s being forced down their throats.
And the same bs that was used against her will be used again. But people eat yhay shit up which is why it works.
And her tactics of bring out appealing to Republicans again is probably whay she’ll do again and that’s going to lose more dem voters.
The corporate Dems need to go away.
The shock to me is that Kamala Harris is in the poll at all. What rallies is she hosting? Is she even making any media appearances? I wouldn’t be surprised though if the DNC pull out the super delegates to say AOC has lost day 1 if there is even going to be a 2028 election at all.
Please god give us AOC in 2028. Shes the FDR 2 we need when this is all over.
FDR threw 100,000 Americans into concentration camps because of their race. Trump is FDR 2.
We need some sanity, not more crazy regime change nonsense. Markets don’t like uncertainties, and markets are what leads to productivity investment.
Not that Harris is any better.
If Harris was a leader she would be out there touring like AOC. Shes not a leader. She had her shot to prove otherwise and didn’t.
I mean, if I were her I’d feel drained and devastated. Everything that happened during the election and people still picked Trump over her…
I have a hard time feeling sorry for her after leaving the left hanging and going after conservative votes. She made an incredibly poor strategic choice and it cost all of us.
Obviously she’s not the only one to blame here, conservatives deserving the majority of blame followed by people that stayed home, but she doesn’t deserve pity.
Pity maybe not, but understanding definitely. If that were me ya’ll picked Trump over I’d tell all ya’ll to fuck right off while I prep a boat to Europe. Then all the people saying I should stay out of it would be bitching that I’m not participating anymore.
Exactly. If I were her, I’d fuck off to Europe and send a big fat middle finger to everyone asking for help.
Is that in the best interests of the American people? No. Is it an entirely understandable reaction? Yes.
If I were her, I’d fuck off to Europe and send a big fat middle finger to everyone asking for help.
Sending a big fat middle finger to everyone asking for help was basically her campaign.
Europe would be the worst pick for Harris. Maybe the Philippines or other thinly disguised police state.
So just half of Europe?
… not to mention she didn’t ask for a recount. That one was a red flag for me.
A recount requires a vote to be close, it wasn’t. Trump won every swing state. And with the margins he won by, every recount in the world would not overcome the 86 EVs she trailed by.
The election results were very close - and it was a big election, some ballots were rejected, there were bomb threats and there were also statistical anomalies. She should have asked for a recount.
If I were her, I would have had a plan B knowing what the right wingers were up to, and it should have looked a lot like what Bernie and AOC are doing. Instead she showed up then fucked off to somewhere else after hanging out with Dick Cheney for a few months.
Exactly why she’s not a leader. A leader understand that you don’t have time to lick you wounds when the enemy is at your door. She should be fighting harder now, not sulking.
If she’s still drained and devastated months after losing, she’s not emotionally mature enough to be president. What’s going to happen the first time a soldier gets killed in combat? At least Hillary has some cajones, Harris never gave me that impression.
At least Hillary has some cajones, Harris never gave me that impression.
Hillary had years of experience on the federal level. Senator and then Head of State. She was used to making choices that had a big impact.
I will always remember Harris for her DNC nomination debate performance. She personally called out Biden’s racist policies and how it impacted her. Showing that out of touch white men have lasting impacts on generations children. It was her highest moment. If you check articles they’ll say that was one of the highlights of the event.
And then became Biden’s VP. Just willing to ignore how he personally wrote a racist bill that harmed you because it’s a position of power? Alright. That’s sure a message about your morals.
And when asked about why by Steven Colbert: “It was a debate!”
Drained and devastated but willing to lose again? Spray this turd down the drain of your empathy and out of a leadership roll.
You feel sorry for that god awful campaign?
So she should be all recovered by '28 then? /s
Yeah. I have a lot of problems with Kamala The Cop. But she lost what might be the final election in American History. That takes a lot out of you
Not as much as it’s taking out of the rest of us, not even close.
They cheated, and we ALL know it. If she’s upset about anything, it’s that she was cheated out of her historic legacy, and the spineless Democratic party backed HitlerPig over her.
If she were out there touring people would tell her to shut up and sit down. She had her shot, twice, nobody wants what she’s selling.
Is she even considering running at all?
Like when she was up there giving her chatgpt, “make me sound inspirational” concession speech rather than just being mad as hell like the rest of us. She’s plays leader but she will sit in the manager cubical while the rest of us eat the company provided cold turkey in the break room the day before Thanksgiving.
Usual: If you voted 3rd party or didn’t vote, you signed off on our current reality.
But you’re not wrong, and I have plenty to disagree with AOC about, but they’re all conversations for a better time; done and done.
Nope. I voted 3rd party because I didn’t want Trump, and I also didn’t want Harris. Maybe if Harris had tried campaining on what Americans wanted, rather than trying to win over people who were obviously not going to vote for her, we wouldn’t be here.
But she chose genocide, money, and the Cheneys over winning an election against one of the least popular presidents we’ve ever had.
Nah, 3rd party voters at least voted. This solely lies on the folks who didn’t vote.
If you voted 3rd party in a FPTP election, you are functionally indistinguishable from a non-voter. You can talk about your principles all you want, but by the mechanics of the electoral system you are exactly equivalent to a non-voter.
Yeah fuck people who help dems win local elections and ballot measures! Those things aren’t real! Everyone knows the house and senate don’t matter! And neither do state legislatures! Fuck those stupid things that don’t affect anyone, it’s all about voting for the guy you think is going to win, not the one you want! Or, idk whatever you dems go on about.
Let’s keep attacking progressive voter base like the DNC wants! Let’s keep alienating them more! It will be a good idea THIS time! It worked so well that’s why 2016 was our best year! Way better than 2008 when we didn’t actively attack them! If we don’t ensure politics is voting against the one you hate most how will we keep all those non-voters at home, keep money in politics, and keep those oligarchs happy!
A histrionic straw man.
Exactly the opposite of reality. FPTP does not preclude third parties from winning, hence the existence of the republican party. It does mean you have to vote your principles and not strategically vote. If everyone voted for the party that most closely aligned with their principles, neither the Dems or repubs would ever wing the presidency and would never hold a majority in any Congress at any level.
Incorrect. I can justify any number of results with such a monumental “if”. Any strategy based on such a large number of people suddenly changing their voting tendency in such a way is unworkable. As one party splinters, the other is heavily incentivized to stay together and easily win. It’s a game of chicken; the first party to break ranks is doomed. People understand this on an intuitive, tribalistic level. Fracturing the less monolithic party will only strengthen the more monolithic one. That is reality.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
Hard disagree, as again, the republican party exists. It was a third party.
Practically no one votes strategically. The vast majority of voters vote the same as their parents and/or peers. The extreme minority of voters that care about issues vote for whatever party of the two that suits them best at the time.
But bigger than all these groups are the eligible voters that think nothing will change because people like you tell them they only have two options, so they don’t vote.
Because neither option is good. There is Nazi, and there is the group that appoints nazis. Both exist solely for their own power and wealth. Neither help people until the riots get too violent. So why vote. Why care?
So either we introduce a third party or more, and maybe give some hope, or we let the uniparty continue to win and we all have to survive a balkanized US when it collapses.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
I can’t imagine thinking about “serving people” when majority of them turned out to be hateful idiots that frankly deserve getting their faces eaten by a leopard. Let her catch a break maybe?
Nah, I’m not giving her a break. She handed the elction to Trump on a silver platter. It should have been a slam dunk election, but she chose genocide, money, and the Cheney’s over winning.
Ah the good ol american responsibility deflection strategy
How is accurately describing what happened “deflection”?
a bad carpenter blames their tools.
The Dipshit didn’t even get the majority of people who did vote, let alone the country as a whole
Wait why is Harris even running again? I don’t think she’s that bad but I can’t vote in US elections - the electorate rejected her.
Bold of them to assume there is going to be an election 2028
Only a shock to folks who still think Democrat centerists are what’s gonna win the votes
“We want to maintain the status quo that led to the election of Trump twice!”
Exactly! It’s just… why?
Because no matter who is in office they’re still part of the enrichment scheme that is our government. They don’t really care who wins or loses because it doesn’t really affect them.
That’s why it’s important to be represented by the marginalized so that the decisions actually matter to the people making them.
I read it as “it’s a shock that she came in second” lol
I will vote for AOC with pride. But I’m leery about running another woman right now. Neither Hillary nor Kamala could win against Trump.
That said, I can’t think of anyone I’d be happier to vote for. I dream of her being President. I don’t know if swing states will have it, but I would fight to make it so.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. There’s no statistical difference in the chances of victory between men and women when running for political office. Lots of Republican politicians are women. I don’t see it as a big deal.
Also, lots of open racists voted for Obama. If you look at the polling and the interviews, it was much more about running conservative Democrats trying to get the votes of people who wanted to shake things up. That’s what Obama promised, that’s why Sanders would’ve won, by some measures, and it seems AOC is out there generating the same buzz.
There’s no statistical difference in the chances of victory between men and women when running for political office. Lots of Republican politicians are women. I don’t see it as a big deal.
It’s only a deal because the democratic party is willing to hold back all women just to prevent the success of one progressive woman.
Hillary and Kamala were awful candidates - they wouldn’t have won if they were men or if it were the first coming of Christ. (I’m skeptical he ever arrived at all). The DNC is the blame for their failure. Hillary was out of touch. Kamala had too many issues to list.
All that aside, they would have presidented circles around Trump.
Maybe because Hillary and Kamala were terrible candidates? Are you kidding me?
I will vote for AOC with pride. But I’m leery about running another woman right now.
…that we’re talking about a progressive woman.
AOC is a progressive. Harris was too, prior to her role as VP.
She ran with Progressive planks, but she was a DA. She’s a cop. Cops aren’t progressive.
Yea harris is far from a progressive. She kept people in jail for bullshit marijuana charges.
And as we all know…
Repeat after me kids
All Cops Are Bastards
Attorneys aren’t cops. Can we stop with the right wing smear campaign?
District Attorneys work for cops and for the interest of the government. They’re worse than cops… They empower, protect, and exonerate cops.
This isn’t a right wing smear, it’s a reality check for libs still clutching their pearls over their shitty candidate.
She ran on exactly the same thing as Biden and backtracked on everything progressive she said in previous campaigns.
Cops are not progressive, they protect the interests of the state, not it’s people
I’m shocked that Harris is in first place…
I used to be shocked Biden was #1 in 2019. Turns out, name recognition matters more than anything else, and Harris had a historic campaign budget. (Not that it was used well, but AOC has never had that level of PR)
Not so sure about that, I knew who Cortez was years before I recognized Harris and I’m not in either of their districts.
But you are commenting on Lemmy, which i’d argue makes you atypical and your media/news consumption probably looks very different to that of the average American.
Technically I’m on Mbin, but I get your point.
That said, I was hearing her name in broadcast and print news reports way before Harris and I visit a wide variety of websites.
that’s not because of pr or an ad campaign, that’s because she says important things when nobody else will, and because the gop has had a massive hate/racist fit about her for years…
How is speaking to the public not public relations?..
I only knew about Cortez because my MAGA cousins would rant about her and the Green New Deal and I decided to look her up.
“Ehrmagerd we’ll be forced to live in unpolluted cities where everything’s within a 15-minute walk! I’d rather die!”
Current DNC leadership might push Hillary for 2028
Insert I’m tired boss meme here.
Not a chance. They’ll go for Biden.
AOC would receive my vote.
I’d vote for AOC over Kamala, 100%.
I mean, I still voted for Kamala, but I wasn’t excited about it.
She’s an amazing candidate. I’d vote for her. I dunno about the rest of the country tho. They seem to really appreciate white men when it comes time to vote. All other issues be damned.
Just let the white man win better than this orange one in office. we know both sides still prefer them stop fighting this bullshit
It’s kinda bullshit and could be addressed with some light propaganda messaging over the course of 5 years. It’s a direct result of Fox news propaganda, and historically engrained racism. Be cool to adress it as such in the open light especially with an AOC candidate over the next 4 years. Even if it meant stepping down for a different candidate i think they should start her campaign funding soon and try and build a brand that works with the masses.
The fact that Kamala is even going to try to run again shows how fucked that party is.
The fact that’s she’s leading in the polls is fucking crazy
Bruh, it’s a meaningless poll. There’s no election coming up. Hoping and pretending isn’t going to change anything. Forget any pretense of another election.
There’s no election coming up.
The spectacle of election is never going away. We literally just had two house special elections at the start of the month.
We’ve got some pivotal gubernatorial races in November. I’m sure we’ll have more special elections as our existing crop of geriatric politicians die out. Then a bunch of legislative races in '26, etc.
The spectacle won’t end. We’re going to keep doing the ritual for a long while.
Yes, mostly meaningless elections. I wouldn’t even expect midterms, let alone the national.
The worse the republicans screw up, the more the Democrats are convinced they don’t need to change. I don’t think Kamala is going to end up on the ticket. I think the democratic establishment is going to push Gavin Newsom and Rahm Emanuel or something dumb like that.
As a Californian, please don’t vote for Newsom. He has done an about face and is courting Charlie Kirk
The entire Democratic party consists of people like that.
Guys - go and advocate AOC on other platforms.
Including GOP ones like wsj comments, rumble and othersI’d rather Whitmer over AOC or Harris
Neat! But your words don’t mean anything because unless we fight, no election matters. So many Americans are under the impression that we can vote our way out of this. I’m sorry, sometimes a country is in turmoil and your only choices are fight or die. Nobody chooses this, but if you choose to avoid it, you’re only hurting yourself and kids. Sometimes you don’t have a choice but to fight.
This summarizes current America very well: I say I prefer a different candidate and you respond by telling me I’m wrong for that.
And what are you doing to that end, aside from the obvious of typing vigorously about it?
Don’t worry about that and just know that I’m an ally.
I note you don’t say who’s ally you are.
Says everything.
A PROSECUTOR IS OUR LIBERAL SAVIOR?!?!?!?!
A poll looking 3 years ahead is about as accurate as an astrological chart (and just to be clear, those are worthless).
Welcome to American politics, when the 2028 election begins in 2024 and the 2028 primary began in 2020.
I’m so tired.
