If you’re going to read malicious intent into my genuine confusion, then yes, we’re done here. I would’ve thought that five years on this site would buy me enough goodwill that I’d be allowed to ask for clarification when I apparently misinterpret something, though.
Are you asking for clarification on how Strawmanning is bad faith, or are you asking for clarification on how what you did here was Strawmanning OttoboyEmpire’s argument?
E: Like, I don’t need any help understanding why straw manning is bad. That much is self-evident. I’m just not sure where exactly I made the wrong leap of logic here.
what i understood from the original comment: online porn and the sexualization of everything replaces actual bonding with instant gratification, making people lonely
what you’re claiming they said: jacking off is counterrevolutionary because you do it alone
which is not their point at all. you completely missed the mark
The wrong leap in logic seems to be like, right at the beginning.
Jorking ur peanits for 16 hours is not the same thing as playing a video game or reading a book or spending time with a pet. Are you suggesting that these are equivalent activities? Is this really what you believe to be the substance of OttoboyEmpire’s argument?
Constant, incessant sexual self-gratification and the forgoing of intimacy and interpersonal attachments does mean that one is not in community with other people - this is the concept of alienation.
Not being in community with others, that is being alienated from other people, does not mean you’re somehow reactionary or counter-revolutionary. OttoboyEmpire never suggested that it does.
Is this a thing people actually do all day every day? I’d think the limits of the human body preclude that. But yeah spending all of your time on any given solitary activity is a bad idea.
a world in which you can instantly gratify yourself alone, all the time, in lieu of having to go outside and talk to and then fuck someone else, is one which forgoes the development of constitutive attachments with others, a necessary requirement of community.
Emphasis mine, but literally the exact text you quoted as the upvoted comment which you described as, again directly quoting: “Enjoying solitary activities is counterrevolutionary because communism is about community.”
Nobody but you equated obsessive self-destructive masturbation with enjoying solitary activities. Nobody but you said that it was counter-revolutionary. Nobody but you said that communism is about community.
But yeah, we’re in agreement. Nobody should spend the whole day just doing one thing.
if some people are so invariably into consuming porn, i would suggest they opt for capitalism – though Marx may have allotted for gooning in the morning before fishing at midday and critiquing after dinner, capitalism will surely provide a more varied and variegated porn under the profit motive. all that is holy is profaned, and these people (who, apparently, are NOT the product of their environments, but would be necessarily just, really, irreducibly horny) would be better off there.
which reads to me as a strong implicit accusation of being counter-revolutionary.
how?! How do you read “if you obsessively consume porn, probably capitalism is for you because it will produce a greater variety of porn” and see… That?! Seriously, this is an incredibly weird read. You are honestly taking this in a weirdly personal way, it’s not about you (at least I hope not!). The conversation is about one specific form of deeply unhealthy consumption of media produced by a deeply unhealthy industry. It just doesn’t make sense to generalise in this way and it truly, honestly reads as bad faith because - I want to stress this because it’s important - that is an absolutely WILD reading, as is your reading of the main comment. I don’t know what’s going on here but clearly, clearly there is something very wrong with your reading comprehension.
Ottoboy didn’t say “commercial pornography” or “the pornography industry.” If Ottoboy had, I wouldn’t have given the comment a second thought. But they said pornography. Period. All-inclusive. Relegating any exceptions to the realm of a (clearly hypothetical) liberated society. As in, everything from the front page of PornHub to a naked drawing of someone’s original character that they share with a Discord server of 10 people goes in the same bucket.
How do you read “if you obsessively consume porn, probably capitalism is for you because it will produce a greater variety of porn” and see… That?!
People tend to support their material interests.
This comment is saying it is in the material interest of those who use porn to support capitalism.
Ottoboy’s comments in that thread do not allow for any level of acceptable existence or use.
Therefore people who use any amount of porn will have an interest in upholding capitalism.
Therefore, they are likely to support capitalism (see #1).
Therefore they are, as a group, counter-revolutionary.
capitalism will surely provide a more varied and variegated porn under the profit motive.
Yes, capitalism will surely provide the most variegated porn. It’s the stripiest and most aggressively bicolored porn. Not even my beloved Monstera or Dracaena could be so incredibly variegated!
Okay, enough word choice teasing. The user is objectively correct about this and I think you’ve again misunderstood what is meant here:
all that is holy is profaned
Capitalism doesn’t hold anything sacred, and the capitalists will sell and distribute whatever they can. CSAM, Revenge Porn, Beastiality, All manner of unbelievably disgusting and bigoted content is available under capitalism thanks to profit motives. There quite literally is more “choice” under capitalism, but just like the 500 different types of high fructose corn syrup covered corn puffs made by 3 companies in the American cereal aisle all the choices are fucking awful. More or less universally predatory and largely illusory in terms of the substance of that choice.
these people (who, apparently, are NOT the product of their environments, but would be necessarily just, really, irreducibly horny) would be better off there
This is a hyperbolic and sarcastic way of stating that the original argument in that thread is predominantly hypothetical, and that “gooners”/porn addicts/what have you are largely a product of their environment.
which, taken with the actual contents of Ottoboy’s reply, gave me the impression that Ottoboy was saying that porn only exists out of a profit motive. But we don’t need to look to a hypothetical future communist society for counterexamples because I guarantee you the vast majority of people writing slashfic on AO3 or whatever aren’t making money off of it and have no expectation that they will.
If you’re going to read malicious intent into my genuine confusion, then yes, we’re done here. I would’ve thought that five years on this site would buy me enough goodwill that I’d be allowed to ask for clarification when I apparently misinterpret something, though.
Are you asking for clarification on how Strawmanning is bad faith, or are you asking for clarification on how what you did here was Strawmanning OttoboyEmpire’s argument?
The latter.
E: Like, I don’t need any help understanding why straw manning is bad. That much is self-evident. I’m just not sure where exactly I made the wrong leap of logic here.
what i understood from the original comment: online porn and the sexualization of everything replaces actual bonding with instant gratification, making people lonely
what you’re claiming they said: jacking off is counterrevolutionary because you do it alone
which is not their point at all. you completely missed the mark
Okay thank you this is the summary I was looking for.
The wrong leap in logic seems to be like, right at the beginning.
Jorking ur peanits for 16 hours is not the same thing as playing a video game or reading a book or spending time with a pet. Are you suggesting that these are equivalent activities? Is this really what you believe to be the substance of OttoboyEmpire’s argument?
Constant, incessant sexual self-gratification and the forgoing of intimacy and interpersonal attachments does mean that one is not in community with other people - this is the concept of alienation.
Not being in community with others, that is being alienated from other people, does not mean you’re somehow reactionary or counter-revolutionary. OttoboyEmpire never suggested that it does.
Is this a thing people actually do all day every day? I’d think the limits of the human body preclude that. But yeah spending all of your time on any given solitary activity is a bad idea.
Emphasis mine, but literally the exact text you quoted as the upvoted comment which you described as, again directly quoting: “Enjoying solitary activities is counterrevolutionary because communism is about community.”
Nobody but you equated obsessive self-destructive masturbation with enjoying solitary activities. Nobody but you said that it was counter-revolutionary. Nobody but you said that communism is about community.
But yeah, we’re in agreement. Nobody should spend the whole day just doing one thing.
They also said, in the same post
which reads to me as a strong implicit accusation of being counter-revolutionary.
how?! How do you read “if you obsessively consume porn, probably capitalism is for you because it will produce a greater variety of porn” and see… That?! Seriously, this is an incredibly weird read. You are honestly taking this in a weirdly personal way, it’s not about you (at least I hope not!). The conversation is about one specific form of deeply unhealthy consumption of media produced by a deeply unhealthy industry. It just doesn’t make sense to generalise in this way and it truly, honestly reads as bad faith because - I want to stress this because it’s important - that is an absolutely WILD reading, as is your reading of the main comment. I don’t know what’s going on here but clearly, clearly there is something very wrong with your reading comprehension.
The comment it was in response to said
Responding to that specifically with
when Ottoboy also said elsewhere
Ottoboy didn’t say “commercial pornography” or “the pornography industry.” If Ottoboy had, I wouldn’t have given the comment a second thought. But they said pornography. Period. All-inclusive. Relegating any exceptions to the realm of a (clearly hypothetical) liberated society. As in, everything from the front page of PornHub to a naked drawing of someone’s original character that they share with a Discord server of 10 people goes in the same bucket.
Yes, capitalism will surely provide the most variegated porn. It’s the stripiest and most aggressively bicolored porn. Not even my beloved Monstera or Dracaena could be so incredibly variegated!
Okay, enough word choice teasing. The user is objectively correct about this and I think you’ve again misunderstood what is meant here:
Capitalism doesn’t hold anything sacred, and the capitalists will sell and distribute whatever they can. CSAM, Revenge Porn, Beastiality, All manner of unbelievably disgusting and bigoted content is available under capitalism thanks to profit motives. There quite literally is more “choice” under capitalism, but just like the 500 different types of high fructose corn syrup covered corn puffs made by 3 companies in the American cereal aisle all the choices are fucking awful. More or less universally predatory and largely illusory in terms of the substance of that choice.
This is a hyperbolic and sarcastic way of stating that the original argument in that thread is predominantly hypothetical, and that “gooners”/porn addicts/what have you are largely a product of their environment.
I think it’s important to look at this comment in light of what it responds to and disagrees with:
which, taken with the actual contents of Ottoboy’s reply, gave me the impression that Ottoboy was saying that porn only exists out of a profit motive. But we don’t need to look to a hypothetical future communist society for counterexamples because I guarantee you the vast majority of people writing slashfic on AO3 or whatever aren’t making money off of it and have no expectation that they will.