People also forget that the Snowden leaks revealed the NSA was conducting industrial espionage against companies in Europe and China that compete against US companies.
I believe the suggestion is that they then reverse-engineered them and used what they learned in violation of IP law. I don’t follow this, so I don’t know if it’s true, and I would support China doing this because fuck those companies and the US, but I believe that’s the accusation.
Yea I mean I know China has reverse engineered a lot of Soviet and Russian weapons exports but I don’t think chips and semiconductors is the same since the difficulty is in manufacturing and not what’s in it
Companies generally have to transfer IP to even operate in China which is why the stealing IP generally doesn’t even have to happen
China is still using deep ultraviolet (DUV) chip etching which has a resolution of 193 nanometres, whereas the latest technology is extreme ultraviolet (EUV) which has a resolution of 13.5 nanometres. In practice it means they’re about four years behind the other chip manufacturers.
An EUV machine costs about $200 million and that’s the one banned for export to China.
Shipping the machine requires 40 shipping containers, 20 trucks and three Boeing 747s.
Having the schematics isn’t really enough - you also need the production lines and extreme tolerances to reliably build the machines.
Some chips are also export banned so Chinese firms have just been buying cloud time on the chips instead.
Longer term it is expected that China will develop a fully self sufficient semiconductor industry.
First you need the lithography machines (ASML). Then you need the process development (TSMC, Samsung, Intel). Then you need the EDA tools (Synopsys, Cadence).
SMEE announced a 28nm-capable lithography machine, SMIC has a gimped 7nm process, and Huawei has EDA tools capable down to 14nm.
However, necessity is the mother of invention. I’m expecting the next few years to see an explosion in specialized hardware coming out of Chinese companies.
Nothing wrong with stealing technology unless you want to carry water for corporations and their billionaire executives. Regardless of that most of the technological progress in China comes from technology transfer agreements that they made with Western corporations for doing the manufacturing for them which is then layered on top with indigenous innovations.
Actually the largest technology transfer in history came from the Soviet technology transfer to China from 1949 to 1966 (until the Sino-Soviet split). The Soviets practically established modern scientific institutions and kickstarted the industrialization process in China.
The irony is that the rapid industrialization of Communist China was what made it so attractive to Western capital in the 1970s in the first place, which was used in turn to help destroy the Soviet Union.
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I have not seen a single credible source that China stole technology for microchips
If you’re talking about that singular dude who stole from ASML then that’s just a dude
A dude that rocks, might I add
People also forget that the Snowden leaks revealed the NSA was conducting industrial espionage against companies in Europe and China that compete against US companies.
China accused them of the same thing recently: https://hexbear.net/comment/3707564
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Anybody can buy chips from NVIDIA and AMD, I’m not sure I follow
I believe the suggestion is that they then reverse-engineered them and used what they learned in violation of IP law. I don’t follow this, so I don’t know if it’s true, and I would support China doing this because fuck those companies and the US, but I believe that’s the accusation.
Yea I mean I know China has reverse engineered a lot of Soviet and Russian weapons exports but I don’t think chips and semiconductors is the same since the difficulty is in manufacturing and not what’s in it
Companies generally have to transfer IP to even operate in China which is why the stealing IP generally doesn’t even have to happen
Thanks, this finally makes me gets what they’re actually saying with that stupid “China is stealing IP” mouth fart.
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China is still using deep ultraviolet (DUV) chip etching which has a resolution of 193 nanometres, whereas the latest technology is extreme ultraviolet (EUV) which has a resolution of 13.5 nanometres. In practice it means they’re about four years behind the other chip manufacturers.
An EUV machine costs about $200 million and that’s the one banned for export to China.
Having the schematics isn’t really enough - you also need the production lines and extreme tolerances to reliably build the machines.
Some chips are also export banned so Chinese firms have just been buying cloud time on the chips instead.
Longer term it is expected that China will develop a fully self sufficient semiconductor industry.
Semiconductors are hard.
First you need the lithography machines (ASML). Then you need the process development (TSMC, Samsung, Intel). Then you need the EDA tools (Synopsys, Cadence).
SMEE announced a 28nm-capable lithography machine, SMIC has a gimped 7nm process, and Huawei has EDA tools capable down to 14nm.
However, necessity is the mother of invention. I’m expecting the next few years to see an explosion in specialized hardware coming out of Chinese companies.
Nothing wrong with stealing technology unless you want to carry water for corporations and their billionaire executives. Regardless of that most of the technological progress in China comes from technology transfer agreements that they made with Western corporations for doing the manufacturing for them which is then layered on top with indigenous innovations.
Actually the largest technology transfer in history came from the Soviet technology transfer to China from 1949 to 1966 (until the Sino-Soviet split). The Soviets practically established modern scientific institutions and kickstarted the industrialization process in China.
The irony is that the rapid industrialization of Communist China was what made it so attractive to Western capital in the 1970s in the first place, which was used in turn to help destroy the Soviet Union.