As a disabled person, I face ableism and ableist language every day. Some people use ableist language without even knowing that it is ableist. I thought it would be good for folks to take a look at the attached BBC article and expand their perspectives a bit.
That’s exactly the mentality they have.
Any thought that goes contrary to them being perfect turns them into petulant brats that allow them to justify having a hissy fit against the left.
I just don’t get it. If someone tells me that a word or phrase I’m using is offensive, I’m going to apologize and stop using it. Why is this so hard? Why would people double down on wanting to offend others?
I find the word “ableist” offensive. Also the words, “it” and “this”.
So you’re openly a bigot, really something to be proud of. 🙄🙄
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You’re a sanctimonious child.
How many fucking accounts do you have that I need to block.
This one?
I don’t care if you block me. Just do it and shut up.
This is a shitty take. Have more respect instead of trying to dismiss people with shitty quips.
No, it’s not. You have decided that we aren’t allowed to use word that you find offensive but that you don’t have to not use words that we find offensive. You’re a sanctimonious navel gazer. We’re going to ignore you now.
You sure???
Yes.
I ask you read my post, because you incorrectly assumed my position just because I told you to behave better.
I ignored your request because I don’t give a fuck what you think.
Damn, so, you only care about what you think, and don’t care about what other people think…
Jesu, gods, do you ever look like an entitled twat with that opinion.
In an interpersonal (small group or 1 to 1) context, sure, I agree, if you know someone finds something offensive and you keep saying it, you are kinda being a dick (at the least) even if you don’t think you are being offensive.
But beyond that… what you are saying is not is just not practical or reasonable. You can’t realistically stop using every word or phrase that someone somewhere finds offensive.
We live in a time where everyone is offended by everything and everyone defaults to the righteous victim role (and this is not some veiled criticism of the left, the (American) left gets criticized for this all the time, but in my experience the right can be even worse (more easily offended, more fragile, more eager to play the victim, e.g. ‘war on christmas’, ‘christians are an oppressed minority’ and all that bullshit).
My opinion is that you should not change your language because someone else is offended by it. You should listen when someone else is offended, try to understand, and be considerate. If you come to understand that what you said was innapropriate due to that conversation then change your language, but if you don’t agree, don’t change your language just be more considerate around that person because they are sensitive to it.
It’s really not that many words. If you google ableist terms, you’ll find maybe what, ten? I think it’s reasonable to stop using ten words. What you’re saying by refusing to do so is that you don’t think that some people or groups deserve respect.
Nobody is asking you to protest, or to write letters, change your diet, change what you do with your free time, change your job… Just stop using a few words. Hell, I’d be happy if you just considered cutting some words out of your vocabulary. If you’re at least willing to think about it, I think that’s reasonable. :)
People love having someone to feel superior to, that’s all it is. Some want to keep their oppressive language especially when they find out it’s harmful to others.
How is the phrase falling on deaf ears oppressive. Am I living in opposite world now where that’s a slur people use to try to intimidate someone?
They’re trolls from Hexbear. They like to label us as ableist and bigots because it makes them feel superior.
Dude, I’m about as left leaning as it gets. The mental illness comments mentioned in the article, sure, that’s kind of problematic. But statements that are literally just expressions that have been used for probably half a century or more like “falling on deaf ears”. Gimme a break. Find something actually a problem to focus on, like the climate crisis, or the Assault on trans rights in the U.S.
not proudly flaunting ableism and refusing to listen to people with the actual lived experience, the way you are, you’re not.
in other words: fuck disabled people
Yeah, definitely didn’t say ‘fuck disabled people’. This is literally a made up problem.
Is using racist language a “made-up problem”? If not, how is racist language different from ableist language?
Most racist language is intended to offend and minimize others. It doesn’t come from ignorance, just maliciousness.
Most ableist language is based on ignorance of people who are “not able” in some way. Like saying “everyone can do X” when some people are not for various reasons.
Yeah, you think it’s a made up problem.
Gotcha.
Not what I said at all, but thanks!
People who are affected are trying to tell you it’s not a made up problem. It is your ego and aversion to criticism and personal development that is telling you otherwise.
Language changes. We’ve stopped using some expressions because we’ve realized how hurtful they are — the n word, all sorts of slurs related to being LGBTQ2S+, etc. Here’s one more. Doubling down on this is exactly like arguing that you should still be allowed to use the n word because it’s been used as an “expression” for more than half a century.
Not even sort of the same thing. The n word is a racist term people use to intimidate people. Falling on deaf ears is an expression used with a specific meaning. Now if it was intended as an intimidation tactic or something to make people fearful for their life or insult them that’d be different. This is neither of those things.
There’s a difference between intent and impact (which is in and of itself a pretty important concept in antiracism). Basically, impact always trumps intent. If I use a phrase that insults someone else, and I said “I didn’t mean it that way, so you shouldn’t feel insulted”… well, that doesn’t work. It’s a pretty privileged position to say that an ableist expression is value neutral. If somebody is saying that a phrase is not okay with them, why argue? What’s the harm in just going, “Okay, I’ll stop using that phrase”? People don’t generally make up words to get offended at, and certainly don’t write articles (multiple articles, multiple books, multiple YouTube videos…) to try to invent outrage unless they’re trying to discredit this topic. If someone says that your language is harmful or discriminatory, what does it cost you to listen to them and to change the words you use?
Yeah, whatever dude. I have more important things to do than worry about phrases such as falling on deaf ears, which is one of the main phrases I take issue with in this waste of time article.
It takes people time to change their minds. Hopefully you run across this debate in different contexts. In fact, try bringing it up with friends and/or family to see how they react!
We all wish you’d fucking act like it and just not post instead of wasting all of our time and being rude and dismissive to people trying to engage with you.
“If you’re comparing the badness of two words, and you won’t even say one of them? That’s the worse word.”
I admit I didn’t read the article, but I can say that with the phrase in question of “fall on deaf ears”, it’s a complicated situation. The phrase is poetic in nature and I’m hesitant to try and erase this particular phrase from modern day. I have fear that there will be an over correction towards being non offensive and that creativity as a result will suffer. As someone who has a fondness for poetic expression, this feels like a “throwing the baby out with the bath water” type of situation.
But what’s great about this is finding new and creative ways to express yourself! “My points fell on rocky ground” — Biblical allusion. “They believed me as if I were Cassandra” - Greek. “My words fell on them like the sun under an umbrella.” If you want to keep the synecdoche, “Their ears weren’t ready to hear me”. There’s opportunities to be really creative and poetic if you’re interested in language as rhetoric!
Colloquially, nobody will blink at “They refused to listen” or “It was like I was talking to a tree”.
They’re trolls from Hexbear. They like to label us as ableist and bigots because it makes them feel superior.
Maybe they have alts on hexbear, but these people are from kbin.social and lemmy.ca, so.
I’ve got accounts all over the fediverse (in case one instance goes down or some fascist or tankie admin bans me.)
The give away is the fact that they keep bringing up race. They have been called racists, intolerant, bigots and are butt hurt about it so they’re looking for something to throw back at people to make themselves feel better and to use as a bludgeon to silence the people calling them racists, intolerant, bigots, etc.
It’s concern trolling. Don’t take them seriously.
“They’re from an instance I don’t like!!!1!”
… Shows screenshot proving they’re not
It was actually two separate points. First, a troll brigade (unrelated to the screen shot.) Second, projection, using the ableism argument to try to make yourselves seem morally superior (illustrated by the protection in the screenshot.)
I’m sorry I confused you. I’ll try to keep each comment to a single, simple idea from now on.
You literally said “they” were from hexbear and then “they” in the next sentence. Use proper English if you don’t want to imply what you implied
“They”, as in the three or four members of the brigade. Or, the gender neutral “they”, whatever.
I was actually referring to multiple people. Not everything is about you.
Nice backtrack
K