I am seeing a lot of pushback–presumably from feminists–towards men that are expressing their experiences.
Guys it’s okay to cry.
It’s ok to have emotions.
It’s ok to not be ok.
…But that has not been my experience.
Should it be? Yes, absolutely. But is it now? No. And unfortunately, in my experience, the women that are saying such things–almost always self-identifying feminists–are also often then ones that are unaccepting of any display of emotion in men that aren’t coming from a place of strength. Men are e.g., expected to shrug off grief and depression and go back to work the day after a funeral. I shan’t be too specific for risk of doxxing myself, but I’ve noted that I’m expected to muscle through physical pain and mental exhaustion, while none of my partners–either current or former–will hold themselves to the same standard that I am held to by them.
I cynically think that many self-identifying feminists don’t want to abolish patriarchy, they just want to be able to benefit from it the same way that men do, without paying any of the costs for that benefit that men shoulder.
You do distinguish “self-identifying feminists” individuals who are “pushing back” from the ideology of feminism which is a worthwhile distinction. Because even with a boilerplate feminism 101 ideology around dismantling the patriarchy (and oppressive gender norms) recognizes it harms men as well, and advocates for a full appreciation and humanization of both men and women (and others) as complex sentient and emotional beings (see, equality). The first time I encountered anything about creating space for men to express emotions 15 years ago was through feminists. There’s an entire field of men’s health focused on mental health and dealing with masculinities in health contexts that were built on understandings of gender pioneered by feminist/critical academia.
The people “pushing back” against such emotional space and empathy are advocating for things more aligned with misandry rather than feminism.
Yes, I agree; I don’t think that the people that have given me shit are actually living what they claim to believe. (…Which could also be hypocrisy.) I agree with the primary goals of feminism, if that primary goal is the dismantling of gendered power structures and gender norms so that people can be who they are rather than artificially–and negatively-constrained. OTOH, there are plenty of self-identified feminists that make broad generalizations about negative behavior, and apply that generalization to all men; I don’t think that’s helpful, unless your goal is to drive away potential allies such that you can feel justified in your rage.
The problem here is that the cases that I’m referring to are people saying that they’re feminist without believing in or following core tenets of feminism. If I said, for instance, that I was a Christian, and that I believed in sacrificing animals in the temple for receiving forgiveness from sins, you would quite rightly say that I was not a Christian at all, because I didn’t believe in or follow one of the primary tenets of Christianity (e.g., that Jesus dies for our sins, and that he fulfilled the law such that animal sacrifice was no longer necessary; I am not, for the record, Christian, nor do I believe in the idea of sin). Most feminists would argue that the primary tenet of feminism is tearing down gendered power structures; reinforcing gender stereotypes would therefore be not feminist.
Well no, I wasn’t making a judgement of whether or not those people were “true feminists”. I was making a judgement of their actions as being unaligned with the beliefs they claimed.
Humans do things that don’t align with their core values all the time. It’s called making a mistake or doing a bad thing. For example I’m staunchly anti-racism and try to check my actions. Doesn’t mean I never do racist things. Nor does it mean if I do a racist thing, suddenly I’m no longer anti-racist forever and all time. Who tf knows where the line is, but probably it’s around the point where you stop trying.
I’ve had similar experiences and when I’ve shared this previously all the response I got was “well date better people” as if I have a line of women waiting for their chance with me to select from.
I’ve lost a few relationships for exposing myself as a man with emotions. I don’t plan to make that mistake again. It sucks, but until society changes I can’t.
I have made quite different experiences, the people I felt safest to open were feminists.
Edit: I am sorry for your experience and didn’t wanted to downplay it. However, as there are many answers in a similar direction as yours, i wanted to give an alternative experience.
Yes obviously. Actually, the people i was thinking about, were basically advocating for a fair society where every person can live ther own way. As women are currently structurally at disadvantage, this leads them to feminism.
I’m genuinely glad that you’ve had good experiences. It’s possible that my age–I’m pretty sure I’m 20+ years older than the average Lemmy user–has made a difference in the interactions I’ve had. It’s also possible that being neurodivergent has influenced my experiences. I truly don’t know; I’ve only got a single test subject, n=1.
I am seeing a lot of pushback–presumably from feminists–towards men that are expressing their experiences.
…But that has not been my experience.
Should it be? Yes, absolutely. But is it now? No. And unfortunately, in my experience, the women that are saying such things–almost always self-identifying feminists–are also often then ones that are unaccepting of any display of emotion in men that aren’t coming from a place of strength. Men are e.g., expected to shrug off grief and depression and go back to work the day after a funeral. I shan’t be too specific for risk of doxxing myself, but I’ve noted that I’m expected to muscle through physical pain and mental exhaustion, while none of my partners–either current or former–will hold themselves to the same standard that I am held to by them.
I cynically think that many self-identifying feminists don’t want to abolish patriarchy, they just want to be able to benefit from it the same way that men do, without paying any of the costs for that benefit that men shoulder.
100% agree. and most, if not all, don’t realize the burdens men shoulder.
You do distinguish “self-identifying feminists” individuals who are “pushing back” from the ideology of feminism which is a worthwhile distinction. Because even with a boilerplate feminism 101 ideology around dismantling the patriarchy (and oppressive gender norms) recognizes it harms men as well, and advocates for a full appreciation and humanization of both men and women (and others) as complex sentient and emotional beings (see, equality). The first time I encountered anything about creating space for men to express emotions 15 years ago was through feminists. There’s an entire field of men’s health focused on mental health and dealing with masculinities in health contexts that were built on understandings of gender pioneered by feminist/critical academia. The people “pushing back” against such emotional space and empathy are advocating for things more aligned with misandry rather than feminism.
Yes, I agree; I don’t think that the people that have given me shit are actually living what they claim to believe. (…Which could also be hypocrisy.) I agree with the primary goals of feminism, if that primary goal is the dismantling of gendered power structures and gender norms so that people can be who they are rather than artificially–and negatively-constrained. OTOH, there are plenty of self-identified feminists that make broad generalizations about negative behavior, and apply that generalization to all men; I don’t think that’s helpful, unless your goal is to drive away potential allies such that you can feel justified in your rage.
Ah. So the no true Scotsmen argument.
The problem here is that the cases that I’m referring to are people saying that they’re feminist without believing in or following core tenets of feminism. If I said, for instance, that I was a Christian, and that I believed in sacrificing animals in the temple for receiving forgiveness from sins, you would quite rightly say that I was not a Christian at all, because I didn’t believe in or follow one of the primary tenets of Christianity (e.g., that Jesus dies for our sins, and that he fulfilled the law such that animal sacrifice was no longer necessary; I am not, for the record, Christian, nor do I believe in the idea of sin). Most feminists would argue that the primary tenet of feminism is tearing down gendered power structures; reinforcing gender stereotypes would therefore be not feminist.
Well no, I wasn’t making a judgement of whether or not those people were “true feminists”. I was making a judgement of their actions as being unaligned with the beliefs they claimed.
Humans do things that don’t align with their core values all the time. It’s called making a mistake or doing a bad thing. For example I’m staunchly anti-racism and try to check my actions. Doesn’t mean I never do racist things. Nor does it mean if I do a racist thing, suddenly I’m no longer anti-racist forever and all time. Who tf knows where the line is, but probably it’s around the point where you stop trying.
I’ve had similar experiences and when I’ve shared this previously all the response I got was “well date better people” as if I have a line of women waiting for their chance with me to select from.
I’ve lost a few relationships for exposing myself as a man with emotions. I don’t plan to make that mistake again. It sucks, but until society changes I can’t.
I have made quite different experiences, the people I felt safest to open were feminists.
Edit: I am sorry for your experience and didn’t wanted to downplay it. However, as there are many answers in a similar direction as yours, i wanted to give an alternative experience.
I guess it depends on if they’re actual feminists or misandrists parroting the words and rhetoric. I imagine a terf for example wouldn’t be great
Yes obviously. Actually, the people i was thinking about, were basically advocating for a fair society where every person can live ther own way. As women are currently structurally at disadvantage, this leads them to feminism.
No true Scotsman
I’m genuinely glad that you’ve had good experiences. It’s possible that my age–I’m pretty sure I’m 20+ years older than the average Lemmy user–has made a difference in the interactions I’ve had. It’s also possible that being neurodivergent has influenced my experiences. I truly don’t know; I’ve only got a single test subject, n=1.
fucking facts. This has been exactly my experience.