• FfaerieOxide
        4•2 years ago

        One is in a cult and engages in fascism apologia, another is a christian dominionist.

        About who you’d expect.

    • mishimaenjoyer
      1•2 years ago

      no have no idea what fascists are and just use it as a scare word to attack people you disagree with - grow up.

      • FfaerieOxide
        2•2 years ago

        So you’re saying Helen Joyce’s claim transgender identity is a plot by Jewish billionaires is just her being a concerned citizen asking questions?

        That’s a strange side to be defending, friend who made their account yesterday.

        • mishimaenjoyer
          2•2 years ago

          I’m just pointing out that the „fascist“ label got thrown around by people like you so inflationary that it lost every meaning or sense, making you sound similar desperate as those you seek to oppose. What this does have to do with the age of my account here is beyond me, on the other hand I sense a hint of alt tech elitism that fits the picture just right.

          • FfaerieOxide
            2•2 years ago

            “People like me”? You’ll forgive if I don’t follow.

            And it has a meaning—that they are being fascists—which it maintains.

            It’s fascists’ fault they’re being fascists; not mine for correctly labeling it.

            • mishimaenjoyer
              1•2 years ago

              People who claim that they are right because they say so will never cease to fascinate me.

              • FfaerieOxide
                2•2 years ago

                You want me to explain why transphobia is bad and should be opposed?

                No.

                Fuck out of here.
                I’m not explaining why antisemitism is bad either.

                • mishimaenjoyer
                  1•2 years ago

                  Funny how this escalated from you thinking that the socialpolitical movement of fascism has anything to do with a subtribe of modern, post–liberal 2nd wave feminists all the way to antisemitism - something, that wasn’t even remotely on the table. if you now manage to stir „racism“ into the mix, you can call it a day.

                  • FfaerieOxide
                    2•2 years ago

                    You don’t read links do you?

                    I’m not the one who formed the alliance you deny exists.

                    TERFs have always been white supremacists.

        • danhakimi
          1•2 years ago

          I don’t think @mishmashenjoyer implied that at all. Like, not even close. On any level.

    • danhakimi
      1•2 years ago

      This article is really not convincing.

      like, fuck terfs, fuck the anti-trans movement, but the connection between the anti-trans movement and fascism is framed in this suuuuper abstract way that no meaningful definition of fascism would allow. It kind of just makes fascism sound like “statism.”

      There are plenty of terfs (again, fuck terfs) who are not calling for government action, but trying to exclude trans women from feminist spaces on non-governmental levels, arguing for a limiting social or academic definition of feminism or of a woman and holding exclusionary events. Fascism is an incorrect label for that behavior.

      Furthermore, to call terfs fascists implies that they are generally for other things fascists are for, like a command economy, which I don’t think is common.

      And to be clear, there is an overlap between terfs and fascists, and an even bigger overlap between anti-trans people in general and fascists. We all know the Nazis fucked up a lot of good gender research, but they were never pretending to be feminists.

        • danhakimi
          1•2 years ago

          … did you link to the wrong article by mistake? that article doesn’t really have anything to do with fascism, except insofar as most fascists also happen to be racists.

          • FfaerieOxide
            1•2 years ago

            I could link articles all day but I have better things to do than entertain (presumably) a cis guy while he plays devils advocate about the people who want my friends thrown in camps not being fascists.

            • danhakimi
              1•2 years ago

              that’s literally the first article you linked to. Do you have a point at all? You can link to articles all day, but only two of them, and only one that argues for your point at all, which I’ve already addressed?

              I’m not advocating for terfs or fascists, they’re both villains, but to say they’re the same is like saying the KKK and the muslim brotherhood are the same. Just because they’re both evil and there are some common threads between their ideas doesn’t mean they’re the same. I think we should learn how to talk about the terrible groups out there instead of just equating all of them and dancing around our own ignorance. I’m not advocating them, I’m advocating against them as strongly as I can, and you’re promoting ignorance instead of responding to the one damn point I’ve made.

              • FfaerieOxide
                1•2 years ago

                that’s literally the first article you linked to.

                Yeah I thought maybe you would read it this time.

                • danhakimi
                  1•2 years ago

                  I read it, and responded to it. You’ve been ignoring my response because you don’t have an answer to it. So again. The core argument that terfs are fascists is:

                  To that end, Butler does a good job of laying out that the anti-trans movement ultimately is about strengthening government oversight — restricting access to medical care and generally seeking to ban LGBTQ+ people from the public sphere, which fits pretty neatly into just about every standard definition of fascism. That includes gender critical feminists, the self-professed “leftist” equivalent of the more extreme right-wing fundamentalists.

                  Which, again:

                  • Pretends the entire social-focused aspect of the anti-trans movement doesn’t exist, when it obviously does, and there are obviously many, many terfs focused on non-governmental oppression. The article itself describes governmental forms of oppression, but this does nothing to imply that the anti-trans movement is actually all about focusing on government oppression
                  • identifies an extremely superficial relationship between two positions as both being statist and therefore being the same. The police state is also about increasing government oversight. A command economy is about increasing government oversight. The founding of the CFPB was about increasing government oversight. Having courts is about increasing government oversight. These are not all forms of fascism.
                  • fails to describe fascism at all. Fascism is a specific thing with a specific definition, it’s not just the idea of having an active government. Fascism is a form of nationalism with a dictatorial government, a strong military focus, a hard command economy that exists to support the state and the military, expansionist policies, suppression of opposition to the government, denigration of the individual in favor of the collective in the form of the state… Now, the terf movement, overall, is doing some of those things, but the article doesn’t reference any of them.
                  • fails to establish that most terfs, or the core proponents of the terf movement, or terfs in general, are fascists, let alone that a terf is categorically a type of fascists.

                  If you have a point, then instead of linking to the same article again or linking article that isn’t about fascism, please make your point.