I’m not here to claim that Tiktok is completely harmless, or that it’s even a good site. I’m sure they absolutely do collect as much personal information as they can, and I’m sure they give it to the Chinese government whenever they ask. But I don’t understand how Meta and Facebook are meant to be any better? There’s always a lot of hoo-haa going on with politicians promising to ban tiktok, and (at least back on Reddit) everybody’s vowing they will never use tiktok because it’s such a privacy invasive site. Yet I never see anybody going up against Facebook, at least the average person, but they collect just as much personal info and I’m sure hand it over whenever any government agency in the US asks them to
It kind of feels to me like this is some sort of country thing. China is bad, so they shouldn’t have your personal info. But the US is the last bastion of free speech and privacy, so their companies would NEVER dare to invade your privacy, and their government would never abuse their power to get people’s personal info
I’m aware Lemmy probably isn’t the best place to ask since most people here seem to be deep into open source software and often privacy focused (so I suppose wouldn’t use either) but this also feels like the only place on the internet I might actually get an answer that isn’t just “TIKTOK BAD”. If you refuse to use tiktok but are ok with Facebook - why?
Facebook is NOT FINE
And most people that have an issue with TikTok will also have an issue with Facebook. Not sure where OP got the idea there’s a general consensus that one is ok and not the other.
We’re talking more about TiKTok now because it’s newer, growing, and on of the most prevalent platforms at the moment.
The fact Facebook is a privacy invading monster is old news. We’re not talking about it as much because it’s declining and everyone already knows.
A good deal of Facebook usage also tends to be begrudging because groups and relatives refuse to move off it.
China. Also, no one is saying FB is fine, but since it’s American then gov pretty much shrugs. It was FB after all feeding the NSA yeah?
Not so much saying it, but I personally know several people who’ll argue that Tiktok is a privacy invading god awful website that should be banned then 5 minutes later proceed to doomscroll Facebook
I tolerate Facebook on my network, but tiktok is an absolute no for me, null routed.
If only I could get away with that. Wife would be quite upset.
“Dang honey, guess it’s broke”
Why do you fear the CCP more then the NSA?
I’ll let my previous comment answer that question.
But why tho, what power does the CCP have over you?
As long as the CCP can simply buy the same data from the unregulated data brokers of the world, any fear of tiktok is purely performative.
That’s entirely anecdotal, and confirmation bias to boot. How many people do you know that use neither? I’ll bet it’s sizable.
Yeah, there are some that don’t use TikTok but use Facebook, but that’s not evidence of a trend. Especially when Facebook has legitimate uses that you can’t easily replace with the other platforms
You’re not wrong, it indeed is anecdotal, but I’m not a data analyst, and I’m not going to run a global survey asking anybody who’ll answer whether they use one but not the other. All I can go on is what I’ve seen, and among my friends who use Facebook (most of them), I’d say 70% or so either believe, or act like they believe Facebook is less of a data theft machine than tiktok
Not sure what else you want me to say
Well there’s also the thought “well I was already on Facebook from the beginning so they already have my data anyways, whereas TikTok is a completely new entity that would be collecting massive amounts of new information” It’s like going from 90 to 100(Facebook) versus 0 to 100 (TikTok).
Also Facebook didn’t start off being advertiser focused which is like a frog in slowly boiling water situation, but with TikTok the water started off boiling.
I mean then it’s very likely just China bad, US (or familiarity) good.
I don’t use any service where I’m the product.
Who said Facebook is fine ? Threads was illegal in the EU due to privacy concern.
This is the first time I’ve ever seen the phrase “Facebook is fine” ever written out.
Mhm, me as well.
They all suck dude, they all collect data. It’s just a matter of preference who you give your data to. Or you could live in the stone age and not give any data away, your choice 🤷. (My point is, even Lemmy collects some data, undoubtedly).
Facebook is most definitely not fine. However, as far as I know Facebook hasn’t pushed known RCE (remote code execution) exploits into their product updates, which TikTok has. Politicians don’t care about this but literally everyone else should.
Facebook is bad but TikTok is bad^bad. I use neither, Soo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For real tho, when me and my partner decided to delete our social media our mental health and relationship improved immensely. It even improved our social lives too, if I wanted to know how someone is doing I’ll just shoot em a text or call em and catch up or setup an outing together.
if I wanted to know how someone is doing I’ll just shoot em
How to say you’re American without saying you’re American
Now you know for sure they’re not doing well. It’s unideal but it works every time.
Similar situation: https://youtu.be/ZI64OnOKRoM?feature=shared
Got any source for that TikTok RCE exploit? All I could find was a single bug 3 years ago.
At this point it’s possible that it’s been fixed. I remember hearing about it a couple years ago, in the context of the bug, but I also remember hearing about how a component of their updater, when the app was broken down and deobfuscated, would just run whatever remote code package was handed to it without alerting the end user.
Even if the RCE has been fixed or removed though, the rest of their security theater is unreasonably bad, and I don’t trust them near enough to ever install their app.
“Facebook is fine” Ima stop you right there, lol
They’re both bad but tik tok is on steroids. There are a bunch of security researchers out there that have uncovered the crap ton of shit tik tok collects. It’s basically a spyware app that also comes with a social media app. From the ground up it was meant to collect personal information and every little bit about your device. I block it on my network because any tik tok device also scans the entire network and I don’t want that to happen.
By blocking you mean outgoing requests from your network to tiktok servers? Couldn’t it still scan the network and upload the results later?
I block it on dns level but I guess you’re right. If it’s done locally and stored, I guess I’ll smash every phone I see with tik tok loaded up.
You can replace tiktok with Facebook in your comment, and it’s all still true. If you really believe that tiktok is somewhow worse than FB, you aren’t paying attention.
I don’t use fb either but facebook is even less invasive than Tik Tok and that says a lot.
What are you basing that statement on? Last I ckecked, tiktok hasn’t been implicated in facilitating genocide, subverting democratic elections, etc.
I’ve literally never read any kind of online privacy guide that has said anything like “Facebook is fine”. Not sure where you’re getting that opinion from.
Well, not from a privacy guide lol
It’s not one of those things that’s said in so many words, it’s more just a vibe I pick up from a lot of people. Like people I know will see a tiktok link, complain about how tiktok is a glorified data extraction machine for the CCP then proceed to go doomscroll Facebook for the next hour
Not sure how anyone can answer a question based on a “vibe” haha
Facebook is mega bad for data collection and privacy violations though. People probably just don’t talk about it as much because it’s been around for so long; we’re used to it, we know it’s bad and only boomers still actually use it.
People in the know understand how shitty Facebook is, but at the very least, they’re a private company. ByteDance is Chinese, and there’s very little separation between Chinese companies and the Chinese government.
So, for all intents and purposes, it comes down to a company spying on you vs. a foreign government spying on you. They’re both invading your privacy, but for different nefarious reasons.
Facebook is open about the fact that it hands private user data over to the US Gov’t if they simply ask. Third party doctrine.
Yes but at least in theory, there’s a lot less the US govt can do with that info
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The theory that the US president can’t order the arrest of someone who posted something on the Internet saying he looks like Winnie the Pooh, and expect no consequences.
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No, I think if I was a local in China and said something like that, I would.
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Neither of them are fine, but only one is owned by an oppressive regime.
Whether or not the US is oppressive is a matter of debate I don’t want to get into, but they definitely spy on their own people. And I imagine they’re a lot more likely to act on information about someone living in the US than China is.
Great comment. I can’t figure out which “one” you are talking about, because I find Facebook/Meta oppressive.
🙄
How are they oppressive? Are they committing a genocide as we speak, like the Chinese government?
The US government is shipping weapons to Israel, so yes, it is also participating in genocide. The laundry list of US crimes goes back to the birth of the nation and did not stop for a single moment.
China is not great, but don’t be fooled, the USA is an imperialist power built on a pile of bodies, both foreign and domestic.
Right now? Probably.
In the past, definitely: https://techcrunch.com/2022/09/29/amnesty-report-facebook-rohingya-reparations/
I agree that facebook/meta and the way their algorithms push people to the extremes is horrbile but I don’t think that’s the same as committing genocide
Facebook isn’t fine. But TikTok is worse because it’s not fully controlled within our borders.
Yup, it’s an arm of the state practically, and while FB is bad (oh really bad, don’t get me wrong) the US state department isn’t weaponizing it against journalists.
Since I don’t live in neither country Id be spied by both countries. Just like most of 6b people in the world.
Fuck them both.
They are both malware and I wish we could snap them out of existence thanos style.
Only getting rid of half of them? /s
Facebook is certainly not fine, it’s just talked about less, especially among the younger generations. Teens and twenty-something’s haven’t been drawn to Facebook for quite some time, while TikTok is currently the place to be if you’re in that age range. You don’t need to convince a Zoomer to avoid Facebook, because Facebook is where their grandma does social media, but TikTok is currently dominating their attention.
Haven’t seen this mentioned, but Meta hired marketing consultants to present to the government how dangerous TikTok was just so their Facebook/IG reels or whatever they are called can take their place. This spawned a ton of news articles and opinion pieces about the government talking about this new dangerous TikTok thing and how bad it is. Also, it was very clear that an anti TikTok campaign was happening on Reddit like a year ago, so the marketing didn’t stop with presenting things to the government.
And I’m not saying it isn’t a breach of privacy. I also use Google maps too, so I’m not too terribly concerned with it. But it does just seem like a marketing smear campaign centralized around the facade of xenophobia and “think of the children”
I think the issue with this question is the fact that you asked it on a decentralized platform. If you asked this same thing on a centralized social media platform, you’ll definitely get far more pro-Facebook and anti-TikTok comments and less “uh…both are bad CHECK PLEASE”
Real quick --> these discussions tend to spiral off into bad faith arguments and whataboutism, I’m going to try and avoid that
I think there are a few things that come to mind for me, and I apologize for this being very disorganized
- Both are bad and privacy invading, I avoid both as much as possible
- facebook where I am (and likely through north america) is more embedded in how we communicate. Both individually, and with companies/institutions. This isn’t a good thing, but it’s what has happened.
- I don’t post much or at all on either, and I use the web browser when possible. Unfortunately, I’m forced to use facebook stuff more than I am forced to use tiktok (which I don’t think happens at all)
- Because TikTok is newer, it’s also easier to restrict it. I think if Facebook tried to enter today, we’d push it away much harder
- Is one actually worse? Maybe, but I’ll defer to people that know more. I think on the app level, TikTok collected more data (and types of data) than the apps for Facebook products.
For me, it’s less about who is getting the data than what data is collected. Especially because once the data is collected, it won’t necessarily stay with the one entity. I wouldn’t be surprised if both Facebook and TikTok benefit from the data that the other one collects, making that point somewhat moot
these discussions tend to spiral off into bad faith arguments and whataboutism
Yeah, that’s a large part of the reason I haven’t asked before. But I’m asking in good faith, and I hope I’ll receive answers made in good faith
Both are bad and privacy invading
This is my sentiment too, and why I get annoyed when people claim one is worse than the other
Because TikTok is newer, it’s also easier to restrict it. I think if Facebook tried to enter today, we’d push it away much harder
This is a really good point - thank you!
facebook where I am (and likely through north america) is more embedded in how we communicate
This is where I’m at with it. Tiktok (and Instagram) are only about entertainment via content streams. There not meant to be 2-way or group communication platforms. Facebook, despite its best efforts, is still a communication platform. It’s useful for local info and hobby info. Obviously pictures of cool projects get pushed to the top due to react engagement, but there’s knowledgeable people keeping those groups useful.
Same as why reddit is still alive and well, despite the mini migration that brought me here. My hobby interaction was more than halved when I left. Classic forums are still dilapidated
- Both are bad and privacy invading, I avoid both as much as possible
