• FaceDeer
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    13410 months ago

    I must admit, “Linux becomes the refuge of luddites” was never on any bingo card I could have conceived of for 202X.

    • Ekky
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      5510 months ago

      Huh? Isn’t this about Microsoft changing out a button with a well established use, in order to take advantage of muscle memory and the unobservant?

      Don’t think it’s much to do with people opposing technological advancement, but rather with opposing another company wanting to making a fool of them.

      • Rustmilian
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        1610 months ago

        More over being a luddite on Linux is like a fish trying to breathe in a public swimming pool; it works until the chlorine poisoning sets in.
        Linux adopts new technology constantly.

        • @Hubi@feddit.de
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          5310 months ago

          The difference is that Linux generally adopts new technology because it enhances the user experience in some way, and not because it maximizes ad revenue and telemetry.

          • Rustmilian
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            10 months ago

            Yes, but eventually that LTS goes EOL and you’ll have to move from that abandonware.

            • Granixo
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              410 months ago

              Ubuntu LTS versions can last 10-12 years before EOL.

              • Rustmilian
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                10 months ago

                Yes, 10-12y to swim, slowly in-taking chlorine overtime…
                Then when you do finally switch, you find yourself in a similar yet vastly different swimming pool and the cycle starts over.
                Image when eventually the LTS goes Wayland only and Luddites go : “I’mma just say with my abandonware forever.”
                Luddites hate adapting to new technology as a character trait, it’s what makes them a Luddite.
                Luddites will often choose to deal with decrepit, vulnerable, abandonware then change to something new because they don’t want to spend a week learning new “muscle memory”.

      • FaceDeer
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        This is just another gripe about how Microsoft is putting AI into everything. If it’s really just about the position of a button (which apparently can be changed in the settings if you still want it there) it’s even more petty. Certainly not worth posting about on a general technology community.

        • @StarPupil@ttrpg.network
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          2010 months ago

          I work in IT, and every time I do an install (sometimes new computers, sometimes not) for someone I see Microsoft’s little News widget they put on the Taskbar, the one that pops up a huge window if you mouse over it. Every time I see that, I ask the person if they ever use it, and they always say no. Then I ask them if they want it gone, and they always say yes, usually with some kind of relief. It’s a matter of two clicks to do it, easier than going into the settings menu like your screenshot, but every computer I haven’t been on previously has it. Now, I’d wonder why Microsoft would put something on the Taskbar that is, in my experience, universally disliked. To me it reeks of the pathetic, groveling, “I’ll suck your dick” energy they have when someone installs Chrome.

          Windows 10 changed a lot over the course of its lifetime, and while some feature are good, like Dark Mode, they’re mostly useless or downright bad. So putting something that most people will never use and will greatly confuse and annoy the average user in a place that has been dedicated to a single function for at the very least Windows 10’s entire lifetime (I think it’s there in 8 and maybe 7 also) for seemingly no reason other than to fuck with people’s muscle memory is just one more move very worthy of griping about, no matter how easy it is for users to turn off. Because 99% of users just won’t, because they aren’t confident enough to go futzing around in the settings. But they’ll still get whatever god awful popup this button shows every time they try to show desktop like they’ve been doing for over a decade. It’s yet another change that nobody asked for, nobody will use, and that the user will have to remember that it’s different now for no reason.

    • Rustmilian
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      3310 months ago

      The Luddites of Linux are one’s desperately trying to convince people that Xorg is perfectly flawless and that Wayland is vaporware.

      • @rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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        510 months ago

        Why would people you call luddites even care about your opinion really?

        Come back with your Wayland ad when there’s something like CWM or FVWM for it.

        It’s simply functionally inferior now. Calling people luddites won’t change that.

        • Rustmilian
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          Why would people you call luddites even care about your opinion really?

          Literally, YOU right now.
          Also, this is the linux community; everyone has an opinion on everyone else’s opinion.

          Come back with your Wayland ad when there’s something like CWM or FVWM for it.

          Sway, Hyperland, Vivarium, DWL, Velox, etc.

          It’s simply functionally inferior now.

          It’s functionally superior in many ways, and here’s the real kicker, its actually maintainable and expandable.
          Xorg HDR when? How many decades and still don’t have HDR? LMAO.
          I’m done waiting for Xorg to improve and implement features that simply will never be.

          • @rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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            -410 months ago

            Literally, YOU right now.

            I’m improving the community by answering demonstrably stupid opinions. So I don’t care about you in particular.

            Sway, Hyperland, Vivarium, DWL, Velox, etc.

            Wrong.

            Xorg HDR when? How many decades and still don’t have HDR? LMAO.

            I don’t use HDR and I don’t care. Just like you don’t care about what I use.

            its actually maintainable and expandable.

            Yes, I’m sure somewhere 10 years after I’ll use it after it’s been finally expanded to something usable.

            I’m done waiting for Xorg to improve and implement features that simply will never be.

            Too bad

            • Rustmilian
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              10 months ago

              I’m improving the community by answering demonstrably stupid opinions

              You answer you’re own opinions? funny.

              Wrong

              CWM : stacking window manger
              LabWC, Enlightenment, Wayfire, Weston, and Sway, etc.

              FVWM : Tab Window Manager
              DWL, Hyprland, Sway again, etc.

              You’re factually disproven.

              I don’t use HDR and I don’t care…
              I’m sure somewhere 10 years after…

              Luddite : one who is opposed to technological change.
              Thanks for proving my point. For further discussion you can TELNET me @ www.megaboomerenergy.com::80

                • Rustmilian
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                  10 months ago

                  If you want a 1:1 equivalent WM, then you’ll just have to build it yourself scrub.
                  The WMs I listed can already do everything CWM & FVWM can, then some.

      • @mriormro@lemmy.world
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        -110 months ago

        You people are fucking crazy and will literally find anything to fight about. Normal users don’t care about this sort of shit and it’s the thing that turns people completely off when they inevitably run into a problem with Linux.

        • Rustmilian
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          10 months ago

          inevitably run into a problem with Linux

          This has nothing to do with any of kind of Linux problem.
          It’s just Luddites crying because Linux is moving on from outdated flawed software that has a bunch of unfixable problems.
          Same shit happens with windows, my guy. “WHAAAAAAAA MY WINDOWS XP/98 WHAAAAAA”, at least it’s often partially valid for windows…
          Luddites are not exclusive to any particular OS.

          If someone is having a Linux issue, they just need to ask. Literally just ask me, or the vast major of other users, we’ll literally provide better tech support than Windows will ever have.

          • Kaity
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            310 months ago

            yeah I’ve seen the windows support forums, every official response either misses the point of the question or the answer is straight up wrong.

            • Rustmilian
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              What gets me is the replies like “just wipe it & reinstall the whole thing”.
              Yeah right, like I’mma spend an entire hour wiping, reformatting and reinstalling Windows, then varying additional time reconfiguring everything for a problem that likely has an extremely simple solution but they’re too lazy to gather the necessary information to actually solve it.
              Assuming that the Windows installer doesn’t fuck up and I have to restart the install process again, which has happened to me several times.
              At least Linux takes 5-10m tops to install for the user friendly distros.
              Even I, a Linux user who’s spent hours upon days debugging kernel issues for my hardware can see how fuckin stupid that shit copout advice is.

        • @Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world
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          010 months ago

          Yeah, I don’t know why they devolve back to tribalism. I just installed the thing and the programs I had to use and just…kept using it since I didn’t want to pirate windows xd. No need to shout to others what’s my favorite fake non Unix distro or anything.

          • Rustmilian
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            10 months ago

            This is not tribalism.
            This is people crying because Windows moved from 95 to 98 for comparison.

            Xorg has a plethora of unfixable issues, and people are mad that we can’t & don’t want to stick to it for all eternity, crippling the hell out of Linux growth & innovation.

    • @tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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      710 months ago

      It would mean corporate software support. And while you might still choose FOSS, it means money pouring into Linux—which is always a good thing.

      • FaceDeer
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        210 months ago

        That article attempts to paint Luddism in a positive light and then tries to redefine the term to mean something very for “neo-Luddites” anyway. I don’t find it particularly compelling or well reasoned.

  • @Geek_King@lemmy.world
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    12410 months ago

    I noticed this bullshit a few days ago on my Win 11 desktop! I found if you go check the settings of the start bar, you can hide the copilot icon in the lower right, and then there’s a check box to enable the lower right hand corner to work as show desktop again. The functionality can be restore to exactly as it was, but what the hell were they thinking.

    Enshitification, plain and simple.

  • @merdaverse@lemmy.world
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    9510 months ago

    Wow, Microsoft are always so innovative! I never thought that the Win11 taskbar could get any shittier, but somehow they managed it. It’s great to see those thousands of engineers being put to good use.

  • @Breve@pawb.social
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    9410 months ago

    Everyone: Don’t say anything sensitive or personal to an AI because it could end up in training data!

    Microsoft: We’re making it easier to feed everything you do on your computer to an AI from notepad to your desktop!

    [thisisfine.jpg]

  • @GluWu@lemm.ee
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    7010 months ago

    I’ve been using Linux since Ubuntu was in the single digits. Looks like windows entering the double digits is finally the end. I thought win10 would be able to stay relatively unmolested, but nope, copilot button and bullshit right there in the bar. Why can’t you just leave us the fuck alone. Your driving everyone away who doesn’t have a professional obligation to use your OS. I’ll still have to keep a old win10 boot drive that never connects to a network so I can play games and use CAD that Linux can’t. As a KDE fanboi they’ve added pretty much everything I’ve always wished for and plasma 6 is launching.

    Now is my time. Fuck you Microsoft. I won’t miss you.

    • mesamune
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      2510 months ago

      10+ years with Linux as my daily driver (yeah I’m old). When my os updates, it’s almost always with some feature that’s pretty neat.

      Nowadays the steamdeck or some combo of Linux with steam can play my games, do my work, and I actively make other people’s lives better when I contribute.

      • @Allero@lemmy.today
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        610 months ago

        Thanks for your contribution to the Linux ecosystem!

        It’s people like you who make this whole thing possible

        • mesamune
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          410 months ago

          Anyone can. It’s part of what makes it great.

    • Cethin
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      1010 months ago

      Have you tried gaming on Linux lately? You don’t need Windows anymore except if you use GamePass, because MS has locked that software down to Windows. The only problem game I had was The Finals until recently, and it now works on Linux. Besides that the only issue is I can’t mod Baulder’s Gate 1 because it requires injecting things and that doesn’t work with Linux as far as I can figure out. The game runs fine.

      • @GluWu@lemm.ee
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        310 months ago

        Yes, I’m a long time mint user, and I was also a 1st batch steamdeck so I’ve seen how far just proton has come. There’s still a handful of games that just won’t work, work but not with the mods I need, or take a performance hit. I also have a driving simulator with a VR headset. I’m sure I could get it running on Linux eventually but windows just does it. Recognizes and just installed the drivers for all my hardware. And for VR, there are now a lot of solutions, but I’ve found windows to just be the fastest and best performing. I need every frame I can get running vr on a 2060.

        • Cethin
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          110 months ago

          Yeah, modding sucks right now. If the game let’s you manually add mods without injecting, then it’s fine, though manual can take a while. Nexus Mod Manager (and most others, though CKAN for KSP(1&2) works pretty well but won’t launch the game through that application for me) don’t work yet for Linux, but it looks like they’re working on a new application that’ll run natively on Linux, so I’m looking forward to that.

          • @cole@lemdro.id
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            210 months ago

            r2modman has a native Linux client as well and handles pretty much all unity games

    • yeehaw
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      510 months ago

      I flirted with gnome this install around. I’m so lazy to reinstall yet again to get back to my previous plasma. Seriously Linux is a way better experience these days, I wish those that could would just give it an honest shot. The learning curve isn’t too bad once you understand a couple things.

      • @Fal@yiffit.net
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        110 months ago

        Gnome is awful. It’s almost as bad as windows. Basically 0 customization, and getting worse every release. I can’t even fathom how you would voluntarily switch from plasma to gnome and not immediately switch back

        • @randomname01@feddit.nl
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          410 months ago

          It just works for me, and I prefer the look to that of KDE. Like, fair enough if it’s not your cup of tea, but your basic point here is “I don’t like the workflow and I highly value customisation”, and you then act like your subjective preferences are fact.

          You can customise Gnome quite a lot, btw. I’m not even saying you should give it another shot, but please just don’t act like your personal preferences are objectively accurate.

          • yeehaw
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            110 months ago

            I dislike how they took away minimizing windows. Please help me understand the lack of system tray. I have apps that go there and I have a plugin to bring it back and all the icons have a black background which is super annoying.

            Discord, telegram, signal, flameshot, and others are in there and I don’t understand how gnome intends me to access them otherwise when they’re “closed” in the background.

            • HACKthePRISONS
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              010 months ago

              i’ve always been able to minimize windows from the alt-space window menu. but they are enabling all kinds of customization through the extensions. i have transparent windows (every window, not just apps that support it as part of their functionality), tiling through the Forge extension, the tweak tool gives you lots of stuff including restoring the minimize button to where you think it should be, and there is even an extension to give you your system tray back. but now the gnome team can just focus on putting together the essential parts, and people who want thefunctionality you describe can build it and install it through the extensions.

              i, too, was a bit put off when they ditched the gnome2 look and feel, and i stayed on xfce for a long time. but my job had me using windows and i found out that i like just hitting super, typing what i want to do, and then it happens.

              now, the software center’s tendency to tell me to reboot for updates is something else. we can hotswap kernels now. don’t fucking tell me i need to reboot.

              • yeehaw
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                110 months ago

                My experience with the extensions is they frequently break on gnome updates and sometimes functionality is missing when updated and it’s been a disaster imo

          • @Fal@yiffit.net
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            110 months ago

            I’m not even saying you should give it another shot, but please just don’t act like your personal preferences are objectively accurate.

            I’m forced to use it at work if I want to use linux. You really can’t, and to customize even a little bit you need lots of extra tools and maybe even access the css. For example, https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/ is the only way to get a usable task bar. And calling it usable is being very generous.

            The gnome devs are extremely opinionated in removing configuration and features. It’s honestly disgusting

        • FreeSoftware Ganoo
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          210 months ago

          Idk with a couple of extensions I really enjoy the GNOME work-flow. Although I admit KDE on my SteamDeck has been tempting me lately.

          • @Fal@yiffit.net
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            310 months ago

            KDE is amazing and you should give it a try. It’s unbelievably customizable, and is so much more seamless. Having to use gnome is almost as frustrating as having to use macos. And in a lot of the same ways. Like, trying to get a usable task bar in gnome is infuriating.

            • FreeSoftware Ganoo
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              10 months ago

              usable task bar in gnome

              Just one easy to enable extension for this, but it should definitely be the default. Overall I like the stock GNOME experience and find it clean. When you get the hang of GNOME it starts to make sense. Super key is the answer.

              KDE is obviously more powerful, but I don’t like customizing my desktop very much so that point is moot for me.

              I’m going full KDE for the next 6 months, you should try GNOME for a bit, give it a solid chance with extensions.

        • @cole@lemdro.id
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          10 months ago

          that’s a fair opinion, but for some people they feel the same way about KDE (me). Gnome’s workflow is killer for me, and I love the consistency in design and intent with everything.

          I suppose not everybody just wants customizability

      • @GluWu@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Yes, and holy shit has it come so far. Unfortunately in the professional world you often just need the native program to open the file. Even just for compatability, but rolling back and/or modifying is only possible within its native software.

      • Captain Aggravated
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        410 months ago

        FreeCAD…is getting there. They’re actually heading toward a 1.0 release, and bringing usability and convenience features. I’d say by 2025 it’ll be a better value proposition than the “Free non-commerical use drawbackware” tier offerings from Onshape or Fusion360.

  • @taanegl@lemmy.world
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    5310 months ago

    They’re signaling that you don’t need a desktop anymore, only chat bot. Your device will be a kiosk where you ask Microsoft for favours.

  • @Defaced@lemmy.world
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    5310 months ago

    Linux exists people, without copilot using your information for training data and if you game, has Valve releasing updates like crazy for proton making it easier and easier to use Linux for gaming. The only thing I use Windows for is GeForce now as the windows and Mac apps are the only way for me to play 1440p 120fps with their service.

    Good beginner distros: pop_os, Ubuntu, Linux mint, Nobara or fedora, Garuda, Manjaro, solus, zorin. The possibilities are really endless. Just take your pick, make a bootable USB and try it out.

  • Engywuck
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    Switch to Linux!

    As a Linux user myself, let me tell you that telling people what they should/must do this is how you make people plainly ignore you and think you’re just an annoying person.

    People will keep using what works for them, be it Windows/Linux/MacOS even if with minor inconveniences. Same goes for browsers/services/etc…

  • @Dr_Satan@lemm.ee
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    10 months ago

    Linux. You’ll be glad you did.

    Free. Easy to install. Never gets viruses. Never crashes. Rock solid.

    Runs good on old machines. Runs like lightning on new machines.

    I’ve installed it for 3 old ladies (3 separate installs). They like its simplicity and low-bullshit.

    I personally use Debian with a Mate desktop.

      • @Kbobabob@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        This is the problem with Linux. People that know how to use a PC and are not tech illiterate still can’t use it very well. Just the fact that you offered means you know they are probably having some issues.

        • @JCreazy@midwest.social
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          710 months ago

          I know how to use a PC and I am tech literate and I can use Linux just fine so I don’t get what your point is.

          • @The_v@lemmy.world
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            -810 months ago

            I have used Linux off and on for almost 20 years.

            I install it, see if I can do everything I want.

            Get lost in terminal hell.

            Give up and uninstall it.

            Until I can browse to a webpage, download a program and click on an icon and have it install and work, the OS is shit for the general user. It’s not that fucking difficult of a concept.

            • Cethin
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              710 months ago

              The issue you’re having is it sounds like you don’t understand package managers. On your phone you go through the Play store or Apple store, and they manage your apps and keep them updated. It’s the same for Linux. You download and install things through the package manager (using the terminal or through the Discover application, assuming your distro has that). On Windows you go to a website and download an application, and that application has to keep track of updating itself. It has to check online for updates every time it launches and then ask you to download and install it then. Package managers are much more convenient. It may take a minute to get used to, but it’s better once you do.

              • Refurbished Refurbisher
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                Yeah. People new to computers in general have an easier time using Linux than Windows power users, because the latter expects the same experience as Windows when they are using an entirely different OS.

                Then, when something Windows-esque doesn’t work (like downloading software from a website), they blame Linux instead of their method.

            • Julian
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              710 months ago

              I mean, for most distros you should be about to install and use the OS without touching the terminal. Yeah, you may want to use it for some things (idk what you were trying to do) but it’s kind of the same thing in Windows with registry edits and such. It’s a tool and if you don’t know how to use it, you’re probably gonna get lost.

              Also how is it easier to go to a webpage to download an installer instead of using a store? Even microsoft is trying to move in that direction.

              I don’t want to say your experience is invalid because I definitely think Linux can improve in terms of user experience. But it’s not very helpful to just complain about stuff vaguely.

            • @JCreazy@midwest.social
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              510 months ago

              You’re right. It’s not that difficult of a concept and luckily Linux works just like that. I will admit that Linux wasn’t always user friendly but it’s made leaps and bounds in that department. A bit less than a year ago, I decided one day to wipe my SSD completely and install Linux and I’ve been using it ever since. I’m doing everything I was doing for. Obviously this is going to depend on your specific needs but for me it’s been just fine.

              • @The_v@lemmy.world
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                -410 months ago

                No it doesn’t.

                My last attempt was six months ago. Still had a few key programs in a tarball. Dow

                Then there’s always the random hardware incompatibility. This last attempt it decided to flip the screen upside down on my laptop screen. Fun times…

                It’s come a long way, but for the average user, it’s not anywhere near polished enough.

                • @RmDebArc_5@lemmy.ml
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                  610 months ago

                  What kind of software do you use? I have never needed to install a tarball. Flipping the screen upside down seems like a very easily fixable problem compared to some of the stuff windows throws at you

        • Rustmilian
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          10 months ago

          This is the problem with Windows. People that know how to use a PC and are not tech illiterate still can’t use it very well.

        • @hightrix@lemmy.world
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          -310 months ago

          I’m extremely technically literate, build my own PCs and write my own software tools.

          I don’t use Linux at home because I don’t want to fiddle. I want to sit down, open steam, and play a game.

          I use Linux for many things, but my personal computer uses windows because it just works all the time.

          • @Kbobabob@lemmy.world
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            -210 months ago

            I’m sorry all of the Linux fan boys don’t like your comment. My main is Windows and my other PC is a Linux box.

            • @The_v@lemmy.world
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              010 months ago

              Pointing out significant flaws that are holding the systems adoption rate back is never popular. Most of them are very techy and don’t have a clue what the average user needs. It’s a great way to get them all riled up.

              I spent a few years as a process flow and bug finder for some programmers building a proprietary internal system. Then I trained non-tech savvy people on how to use the system. One of the most difficult jobs I have ever done. Bridging the gap between the two of them was brutal.

      • Liz
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        1010 months ago

        Twitter sent me to Mastodon. Reddit sent me to Lemmy. Windows has sent me to Linux. These things are basically promoting the better versions of themselves by becoming shittier versions of themselves.

        • @puppy@lemmy.world
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          110 months ago

          Same here. But I had always been on Linux since I was a kid because Ubuntu (Gnome 2 days) was very pretty compared to Windows XP to me.

    • Devil
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      210 months ago

      More to the penguin army! Welcome

    • @Kbobabob@lemmy.world
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      010 months ago

      How much searching did you have to do? Be honest. Ever try to mount a network share permanently yet?

      • Rustmilian
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        310 months ago

        network share

        Built-in to dolphin file manager 😜

            • @Kbobabob@lemmy.world
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              110 months ago

              I was like wait they aren’t all already installed by default, then I realized you confirmed it.

              • @Fal@yiffit.net
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                210 months ago

                It’s not automatically installed on gnome, because gnome sucks. But any KDE distro will have it, and any distro ever will have it in the repos

          • Rustmilian
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            10 months ago

            It will be once I infiltrate all 9billion distros.

      • @Allero@lemmy.today
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        210 months ago

        As someone on Manjaro for over a year, I did have a few searches, but they were rare and mostly related to obscure things I needed.

        Not even close to the “search a fix every 10 minutes” experience I was promised.

      • @subtext@lemmy.world
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        210 months ago

        I did, and it was fairly straightforward according to the documentation I found. This was a couple of years ago but I’m pretty sure I needed to figure out how to use nano, then type some magic words into fstab along with the IP and password, and I haven’t had to mess with it ever since.

      • @puppy@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        No searching at all. I got a new computer last month.

        1. Install open-ssh server on the old computer
        2. Copy the IP address of the old computer
        3. Paste it into Dolphin
        4. Copy paste everything
        • @Kbobabob@lemmy.world
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          -110 months ago

          And how would a new user know to find this specific app in the repo? Have you ever actually searched “how to permanently mount a network dive in Linux”? I didn’t see a single one saying dolphin.

          • @puppy@lemmy.world
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            110 months ago

            I don’t know how to mount a network drive in Windows. So what’s your point?

            btw I just searched how to do it in KDE. First result is a Reddit thread explaining how to do it in Dolphin.

  • CALIGVLA
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    3310 months ago

    … You guys might shit on it, but that’s incredibly smart on their part. Ten years or more of that button being there and now suddenly something else replaces it, just imagine the amount of people accidentally hitting the button and being introduced to copilot. This was a very deliberate change.