Hi! In thinking about how to help the fediverse grow, I wonder if there are more mainstream Lemmy instances?
I’ve pointed a couple folks to Lemmy.world and it’s uhhh, pretty hard Left for them (as one girl, who volunteered for the Democrats said “I just got yelled at because I can’t be Left wing unless I want to destroy capitalism? Which feels weird.”) We’re much farther Left than reddit which itself was definitely Left of centre…
I don’t know if decentralized open source social media actually attracts many mainstreamers but assuming we want to grow the fediverse, I’d like to have somewhere I can point people to without feeling very nervous for them.
Thanks!
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Reddit was only ever left of center for Americans. To many/most non Americans, America consists of a far right party and a center to center right party.
What you’re seeing is the result of a platform that wasn’t first created by and for American audiences, and whose initial takeup wasn’t dominated by American perspectives.
I’m not American.
Lemmy is much farther left than any of our national discourse.
I get that American parties are farther Right than most but the discourse here is much farther Left than almost all political discourse. Edit: I’m happy to be corrected, show me a serious party in a position of power in a Western democracy committed to ending capitalism!
I’m not saying that if you don’t want to destroy capitalism that you’re not left. I’m saying that the perspective that reddit itself was “definitely left of center” is not a widely shared perspective, and if you believe that reddit of all places was left of center, then lemmy, which actually is left of center, is going to feel very left of center.
I’d strongly disagree. I think reddit is generally on the left side of most cultural and political institutions.
To each their own though.
Then honestly you must live in some radically conservative country.
Canada.
No mainstream party suggests UBI as a matter of principle for example.
There it is.
Your “country” is a collection of mining and timber companies in a trench coat.
Who is much more left wing than Canada?
I had hoped your question would yield some informative responses because as a normie I am struggling to find a more centrist space here. Every community from technology to memes is wall to wall “DEA TRUMP HITLER!?” I get it, I don’t like him, but surely there are other things to discuss besides that? The users are obsessed with American politics and as a non-American it’s exhausting and I think a little pathetic. Do they have nothing else going on in their lives?
The responses confirmed that the users don’t want opposing opinion and instead really, REALLY want an echo chamber. Message received.
While I do agree that going on day 4 of Musks nazi salute is beating the dead horse, but a “centrist” space is hardly the solution. Even centrists should dunk on Trump and the fascist party. The issue is that politics bleeds into all the popular communities regardless of the community. We just need more non-political communities (or a harder non-political stance in non-political communities).
Wanting a centrist space, especially one that fits the American centrism, is wanting an echo chamber where you don’t get the culture shock of discovering that you’re not actually leftist.
I can’t be Left wing unless I want to destroy capitalism?
Yes. Yes indeed you can’t. How to go about that is up for grabs but if you think that leftism is all about preserving the system that allows oligarchs to accumulate more capital and power, to allow a minority to exploit the majority, I don’t know what to tell you.
…besides that you’re probably American because only y’all are so damn confused about the whole topic.
Left “wing” in normie US is a broad neighborhood.
Left “ism” in normie US is a study of progressive politics with deviation from center exponentially growing as you go “more left”.
Lots of “left wing” folks in the US are low on the leftism deviation curve, but due to the way things work in the US they are definitely “left wing”.
So you absolutely get fiscal centrists with much “lefter” social opinions. And other “left-lite” view combos.
I think to grow Lemmy non combative, but non compromising spaces should exist. Much how some are warped right by spending too much time in the “manosphere” content, folks can be convinced of increasingly progressive politics by being welcomed here. Mind, I’m not saying anyone should cater to anything they don’t agree with, but God damn Lemmy could be less combative. Purity testing mild left folks drives them right. You don’t have to compromise your morals or positions to accomplish this.
So I’d close by saying Americans aren’t “confused” about anything, they’re just less exposed with further left policy / theory, due to being exposed most to milder progressive concepts.
On the right, maga is remarkable because it’s drawing many conservatives quickly up the exponential deviation ladder at a quantity not really seen before.
IDGAF about what the US is cooking up when it comes to political definitions, much less so when they disagree with the rest of the world. Anti-capitalism is necessary to be on the left, it’s not negotiable.
Just like you wouldn’t call someone who denies god a Christian. There’s no “but they deny god a bit less than Richard Dawkins, so they’re more Christian”: No, they’re still denying god, they can’t be Christian. If they consider themselves Christian despite denying god, then it stands to reason that they’re quite confused about what being a Christian entails, don’t you think?
You’re ina thread authored by an canadian about “normies”. North American concepts matter.
Edit even wherever you’re from “left wing” (the scope of center to far left) exists, just the starting point of center is unique.
Further, your purity test determination leaves no room for the varied mins of people all over the world. For example fiscal centrists who are socially progressive. You may call that a false leftist, but I’d just say they’re a mild left wing voter. I bet if they weren’t purity tested they’d eventually shift their perspective on fiscal matters leftward.
Point being people hold varied political opinions, sometimes in complete contrast to themselves. I bet there’s some completely theory pure fiscal leftists who don’t believe in abortion rights, or some other bizarre combo
For example fiscal centrists who are socially progressive. You may call that a false leftist, but I’d just say they’re a mild left wing voter.
So you would call Peter Thiel a leftist? A literal billionaire? A literal neo-feudalist? Because he happens to be gay and proud of it?
You are taking a word that has been, since its literal inception (seating arrangements in the French national assembly, as seen from the lectern), been connected to the struggle of the masses vs. nobility/oligarchy, and you’re attaching orthogonal meanings to it. You cannot be leftist if you’re on the side of the oligarchy, if you’re a capitalist.
“Socially progressive”. You already have a term for it. Good. Use it. Don’t dilute other terms, or even allow them to be turned into their opposite.
centrists
There’s no centre point between “believe in god” and “deny god”: Either you do or you don’t, and anything agnostic is not in the centre, it’s not a compromise, but off the axis altogether.
When did I suggest that would be a leftist? Maybe reread. Specifically the end.
He may hold left opinions on LGBTQ+ issues but hold completely contracting, non left wing opinions elsewhere. We can be sure that’s true. He’s certainly not a leftist, and likely not a left wing voter either.
Ultimately I’d highlight that you are doing the.thing: you are purity testing very broad language in a completely useless way
To be hyper clear for you:
Left WING is not leftIST
LeftIST is left WING
To be hyper clear for you:
Left WING is not leftIST
LeftIST is left WING
Whether -ist or -wing doesn’t matter both still contain the word “left”, don’t they? Therefore, they are either anti-capitalist, or they’re confused. And, yes, much of US politics is terribly confused. The moderate left, in the US, begins with AOC and Bernie, both solid socdems, radical is far a ways off. The Democrat establishment, by and large, supports the oligarchy, they don’t even begin to be on the left.
Don’t expect lefties from elsewhere to play into that confusion.
I mean, if you don’t want to dismantle capitalism, I’m not sure I want you around, anyway.
And you shouldn’t feel “nervous”. If someone is unable to defend themselves against ideals they don’t subscribe to, they should work on their defense instead of running to an echo chamber. Debate us s crucial part of human nature.
if you don’t want to dismantle capitalism, I’m not sure I want you around, anyway.
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they should work on their defense instead of running to an echo chamber.
I wanna say there’s Hilarious Chaos which is right wing and a lil more normie. This instance is pretty good too.
