Its a shame because they’re prominent voice on lemmy. Good on the admins for not tolerating this. I don’t understand the point of targeting a person you don’t like on the internet just because they said something that upset you and spamming their post with downvotes. If you don’t like someone block their ass and be done with it. I agree with the perspective that its harassment (and an incredibly petty ineffective form of it at that)

  • @PugJesus@lemmy.world
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    -23 days ago

    I’m not sure what purpose you fulfill in just linking me a Wikipedia page we both know I’ve already read. The Wikipedia article even mentions Pat Sloan’s work as a source, so it should be good reading for you.

    Excellent literacy

    • Cowbee [he/they]
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      63 days ago

      Reference 35 on the Wikipedia page for Soviet Democracy

      Other historians like Robert W. Thurston argue, while the top of the soviet system became largely bureaucratic, the local levels of society remained largely participatory.[34] He writes “while sane, calm, and sober, no worker would have dared to say that socialism was a poor system or that Stalin was an idiot” but then goes on to argue that these bounds still allowed for citizens to have meaningful participation on their immediate situation and this local participation meant “ultimately relatively little was controlled by the government or party decree”.[34]

      This is supported by some historical accounts. For example, in Pat Sloan’s historical account of participating in a Soviet election, he wrote:[35]

      I have, while working in the Soviet Union, participated in an election. I, too, had a right to vote, as I was a working member of the community, and nationality and citizenship are no bar to electoral rights. The procedure was extremely simple. A general meeting of all the workers in our organisation was called. by the trade union committee, candidates were discussed, and a vote was taken by show of hands. Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, and the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party. In considering the claims of the candidates their past activities were discussed, they themselves had to answer questions as to their qualifications, anybody could express an opinion, for or against them, and the basis of all the discussion was: What justification had the candidates to represent their comrades on the local Soviet?

      It isn’t the exact same Wikipedia page, to be charitable to you, but again I don’t see why you immediately jump to insults rather than asking for clarification. We both know I’m a communist, we both know I’ve read these pages, we both know I’ve read beyond them. Just drop the insults, step away for a moment, and breathe. You’re fine.

      • @PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        It isn’t the exact same Wikipedia page, to be charitable to you,

        I’m not sure what purpose you fulfill in just linking me a Wikipedia page we both know I’ve already read. The Wikipedia article even mentions Pat Sloan’s work as a source, so it should be good reading for you.

        “It’s literally not what I said, but to be charitable to you…”

        Yes, very charitable to suggest that somewhere unspecified on Wikipedia your source was quoted after previously implying that it was on “The Wikipedia article” that was linked and being discussed.

        The source is quoted as nothing but a contemporary account, and the entire talk page is about what an awful state the article is in. But you keep licking those literal Stalinist boots. Do they taste like the blood of Crimean Tatars, or Poles?

        Just drop the insults

        This you, fascist?

        • davel [he/him]
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          63 days ago

          For the love of god, learn what fascism is already, or withdraw from the sphere of political discourse.

          At what point in the past did your political consciousness become completely ossified and unimpeachable, Archie Bunker?

        • Cowbee [he/they]
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          53 days ago

          I legitimately do feel a bit bad for you, you’re getting called out on a thread here and it looks like everyone is dogpiling on you, but being this abrasive and bad-faith is only making it worse. I really don’t think my point of Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan being mentioned on an adjacent page as a source is a bad thing on my part, and you’re right, the Cold War has resulted in tons of blurry sources that can make it difficult to tell what’s real and what isn’t.

          Helpfully, the Soviet archives were opened, and contemporary historians have been able to make great progress on clarifying a lot of debated topics, and Pat Sloan’s account has survived that and been affirmed.

          I don’t really think you’re mean, per se, just crashing out and lashing out. I don’t take any of your insults seriously, just like I wouldn’t a Flat Earther. You haven’t presented any new information, and keep resorting to calling a Marxist a “fascist.” It’s historically and categorically false to lump Marxism in with fascism, it obscures the fundamental ties to capitalism fascism has, and the history of anticommunism in every existing fascist movement.

          Again, I recommend taking a break.

          • @PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            -33 days ago

            I really don’t think my point of Soviet Democracy by Pat Sloan being mentioned on an adjacent page as a source is a bad thing on my part,

            “I don’t think making a false claim is a bad thing on my part”

            Yes, that is very apparent.

            Helpfully, the Soviet archives were opened, and contemporary historians have been able to make great progress on clarifying a lot of debated topics, and Pat Sloan’s account has survived that and been affirmed.

            Jesus fucking Christ, have you read no scholarly works in the past thirty fucking years? The lack of Soviet democracy was overwhelmingly affirmed by internal documents, not disproven, especially in the Stalinist era. But like the Holodomor and the genocide of the Poles and Crimean Tatars, you deny that too.

            , and keep resorting to calling a Marxist a “fascist.” It’s historically and categorically false to lump Marxism in with fascism, it obscures the fundamental ties to capitalism fascism has, and the history of anticommunism in every existing fascist movement.

            “My magic word protects me”

            Calling yourself a Marxist and rejecting everything Marx stood for means jack fucking shit.

            Again, I recommend taking a break.

            I would recommend not simping for a genocidal fascist state, but we both know you won’t stop that.

            • Cowbee [he/they]
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              33 days ago

              In normal discussions, simple mistakes like confusing the Wikipedia page for “Elections in the Soviet Union” with the page for “Soviet Democracy” merits some grace, especially because I have been exceedingly patient with you. Again, I’m only being patient with you because I understand that you feel caught out and alone, that’s why you’re jumping for screengrabs for the drama communities you mod while talking to 3-5 people at the same time. It isn’t really a healthy thing to do.

              As for the “lack of democracy,” no, it’s definitely been affirmed as a somewhat flawed, but working democratic system. The Soviet Union was the world’s first socialist state, it broke new ground and stumbled along the way, but that doesn’t make it “fascist” or those who supported it so. Same with trying to pile on a bunch of new topics to discuss, hoping one of them lands. It’s desparate.

              I don’t see how I reject everything Marx stood for. You’ve admitted to not being a Marxist yourself, what makes you an authority on Marxism? My opinions are largely in line with the overwhelming majority of Marxists, I’m a Marxist-Leninist that holds a fairly standard Marxist-Leninist view.

              You keep misusing the word “fascist” and genocide. You have no sources but Wikipedia links, and you’ve again been at this for hours. For your sake I’m disengaging here, this just isn’t worth it for anyone, and I recommend you do so as well. You obviously don’t care about anything I have to say, and I don’t really take your insults seriously as I know they hold no water, so that’s it.

              • @PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                -43 days ago

                As for the “lack of democracy,” no, it’s definitely been affirmed as a somewhat flawed, but working democratic system.

                The overwhelming consensus since the fall of the SovUnion by academics has been a rejection of the idea that the Soviet Union was in any way democratic even by socialist academics. But tankies online still pass around the sacred texts from 1938; they could never be wrong!

                You’ve admitted to not being a Marxist yourself, what makes you an authority on Marxism?

                Basic fucking literacy?

                My opinions are largely in line with the overwhelming majority of Marxists

                This may be shocking, but the Soviet Union fell 30 years ago.