It’s not fun interacting with them when they often want to engage in ad hominems. This is why I have no interest in the tankie triad.

  • Blaze (he/him)
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    423 hours ago

    I wasn’t implying people who care about politics on whatever side are losers. I was saying that people are accusing PugJesus of being a loser because he cares and argues about politics, and lemmy.ml is the glassiest of glass houses as far as that accusation.

    Ok, that makes more sense.

    I did think about “migrating” to some other place for the topics I care about that have communities like YPTB on dbzer0, but just like in the 196 case, it doesn’t really work entirely that way, and anyway if they continue to let me say what I want to say in YPTB, I probably won’t really care beyond just voicing my opinion on it all.

    It’s up to you. I think it would be good to have another !yptb community that’s not satire or a one person creation.

    You could potentially enforce more respectful discussions there.

    • PhilipTheBucket
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      117 hours ago

      You could potentially enforce more respectful discussions there.

      I actually lean more towards the side of “let the people talk.” Some direct personal insults I feel like are maybe worth keeping away (I read this comment and was going to voice my agreement but then when I got to the “moron” part that instantly made me conclude, welp buddy, that’s not productive). Mostly though I think the main asset of an alternative mod feedback community is that the dbzer0 admins are fine doing deletions and bans from YPTB for various reasons including “trying to stir up instance drama over our genAI policies, which are not up for debate.” UP-FOR-DEBATING THE POLICIES IS LITERALLY THE PURPOSE OF THE COMMUNITY. But, as soon as someone comes into it and disagrees with the dbzer0 admins on some issue, they often decide it is some particular category of not allowed debate, and ban the person.

      There are some other examples on that page that to me are equally stupid, but that one takes the cake to me. If I were to make a competing YPTB community, I think that’s the most important rule I would change, personal attacks being allowed or not is a lot less crucial than that to me.

      • Blaze (he/him)
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        416 hours ago

        This is a direct consequence of having that community part of dbzer0.

        A community is still subject to the rules of the instance hosting it.

        A potential alternative would be to have the alternative community on an instance with a very few rules, but there’s none that I know of at the moment.

        Israel, drag, AI, every topic would still come up in the comments of a new community, and the mods of that new community would probably have to take a stance on those, or just see endless slapfights in the comments

        • PhilipTheBucket
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          -116 hours ago

          An instance whose rules include “the rules are not up for debate” has no business hosting a community for critique of moderation. I would actually expand that to say that it’s pretty silly to have that rule in the first place, regardless of what communities you’re hosting, but it does seem to be a pretty popular viewpoint here for some reason. I’m legitimately surprised to hear it from an instance that’s described as anarchist. The .ml instances are at least more open with their political alignments and then consistent with them in their moderation in practice.

          Scratch an anarchist and an authoritarian bleeds, I guess, lol

          • Blaze (he/him)
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            412 hours ago

            I understand why an instance staff wouldn’t want to have posts questioning instance guidelines every week.

            Interestingly enough, in the case of anti AI bans, that topic was discussed on https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49185248?scrollToComments=true , and it seems like both the mod and the person iniating the request found a way

            So no, it’s not really “Scratch an anarchist and an authoritarian bleeds”

            • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
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              6 hours ago

              Phillip hates that db0 isn’t a carbon copy of his failed instance, therefore we’re somehow not anarchists for not tolerating the intolerant.

              • Blaze (he/him)
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                12 hours ago

                Probably x)

                Edit: just because you care about trans people

                In addition to simply brigading my communities I have had people harass me in DMs, make death threats towards me, and make fun of me for being a recovering alcoholic. I’ve had these people deny my gender identity, claim I’m a woman, deliberately use the wrong pronouns, and even one person impersonating me while acting like a pig. Really vile stuff.

                In short these are not knee jerk reactions, the vast majority of the bans I cast are for good reasons, and while I have made mistakes on occasion, the majority of these bans are correct, and I don’t believe we should be forced to allow known problematic users to hurt our communities just because they haven’t left comments there yet.

          • Jennykichu
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            -113 hours ago

            Scratch an anarchist and an authoritarian bleeds, I guess, lol

            Literally this entire instance. Don’t get me wrong there are worse places out there but its basically Lord of the Flies up in this place. I am very sure nobody in charge is over the age of 21.

            I am actually not like you and I left this instance months ago because I wanted more moderation but it’s clear these “anarchists” are ok with harassment and sexism as long as it is targeted towards who they perceive to be enemies. They have zero consistency in applying their “rules” and they hide behind “anarchism” to justify the same childish behavior they criticize other instances of doing.

              • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
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                36 hours ago

                Maybe after they come back on for the first time after 10 months they’ll have them, because clearly they don’t have them now.

            • PhilipTheBucket
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              12 hours ago

              Literally this entire instance. Don’t get me wrong there are worse places out there but its basically Lord of the Flies up in this place. I am very sure nobody in charge is over the age of 21.

              Yeah. 100%. Well… there are plenty of 18-year-olds running around the world whose chronological age is a lot older. But yes. It actually mostly doesn’t read to me as malicious from this instance, it just feels like people who have never experienced being in a collaborative circumstance where they have to get along with people who they don’t see eye to eye with or have real friction with and they have to cope with it. Or they have never been in some kind of environment where one person is “in charge” but also has to earn respect of people. Like their whole concept is “I’ve got the mod buttons, you do not, so shut the fuck up, this is what’s what” and they’ve never experienced the aftermath when you do that to people who have ability to push back in turn.

              I mean at the end of the day it’s just a stupid web site, but yes in my opinion being able to have these communication tools and have them function well is important. Maybe I’m the weird one. I do think it matters.

              these “anarchists” are ok with harassment and sexism as long as it is targeted towards who they perceive to be enemies. They have zero consistency in applying their “rules” and they hide behind “anarchism” to justify the same childish behavior they criticize other instances of doing.

              Also absolutely. 100%. Them laughing at SoftestSapphic when she’s trying to give some pretty pointed feedback on treatment of trans issues, and then banning her for being “pissy” / “shitty” because of it, really rubbed me the wrong way. I didn’t like that at all. And then yes the hypocrisy of doing that while flopping around like a soccer player moaning about “abuse” because people gave downvotes to some of their precious content, is just extra icing on the bratty-adolescent cake.

              • Unruffled [they/them]
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                410 hours ago

                I stand by my mod actions on SoftestSapphic. Folks can make their own assessment without having to suffer through your opinion.

                • PhilipTheBucket
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                  -110 hours ago

                  “And also, what the hell do you expect of dbzer0 admins to do about people expressing such opinions? You want us to go around protecting the people you like from public opinion?”

                  -db0

                  (Emphasis mine)

                  (IDK why I’m continuing at this point, I’ll probably stop after this in case you want the last word. Both sides of the argument have had plenty of airing, and yes I think the modlogs 100% speak for themselves)

                  • Blaze (he/him)
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                    9 hours ago

                    I think the modlogs 100% speak for themselves

                    It all goes down to the drag issue in the end.

                    Either you think neopronouns are a right (Blahaj, dbzer0) and cannot be removed under any pretext.

                    Either you think neopronouns can be considered trolling under certain circumstances (LW apparently?)

                    By the way, you said in a previous comment (https://quokk.au/comment/661634)

                    Pretending that being trans is equivalent to being a dragon (along with things like encouraging other users to self-harm, because of course this person did, because they are a troll and trying to be cruel to trans people) was the issue.

                    Drag got banned when drag encouraged people to self harm. The neopronoun thing was a separate matter (see above)

              • Blaze (he/him)
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                12 hours ago

                Also absolutely. 100%. Them laughing at SoftestSapphic when she’s trying to give some pretty pointed feedback on treatment of trans issues, and then banning her for being “pissy” / “shitty” because of it, really rubbed me the wrong way. I didn’t like that at all. And then yes the hypocrisy of doing that while flopping around like a soccer player moaning about “abuse” because people downvoted some of their precious content, is just extra icing on the bratty-adolescent cake.

                And you making that comment using that robe is contributing to the flamewar