No earphone jack again. That’s a bit sad. Even though I mainly use BLT earbuds, I still sometimes wish I could use my wired headphones. It’s just a small inconvenience
I had a phone without before, that one came with a simple cheap passive adapter for USB-C to 3.5mm headset. You lose out on using headphones while charging, but other than that I was never really inconvenienced…
After having a phone without a 3.5mm port or a microSD card slot, the top 2 features I want on a phone are a 3.5mm port and a microSD card slot.
Shame Sony discontinued their Xperia 5 series, even if they were also excessively priced.
aw man, this is the first i’m hearing about discontinuation. apparently it’s because people want larger phones?!
i have a 5 IV and it is by far the largest phone i’ve ever owned… i wish it was like an inch smaller. but it was the only model i could find that doesn’t have a non-rectangular screen. these bloody camera cutouts are everywhere and i never even use the front camera.
Yep… everyone wants phablets. Apparently.
I don’t mind the cutouts (if done right), they just sit in the notification bar, so they never obscure anything anyway. That’s a place Sony could have shaved off the extra height imo, the top and bottom bezels are pretty unnecessary.
We are slowly moving to under-screen cameras now though.
We are slowly moving to under-screen cameras now though.
Nothing better than a selfie from a low angle, right?
i think they mean “under” as in “behind”.
lol, that’s very possible
i mean the bezels together are less than 1cm. and the notch takes space from notifications, with two sim cards and a vpn active that shit overflows instantly anyway.
Fair, I suppose it depends on how the software handles it too. Personally I never let notifications stack up and the VPN for me is on the other side. I’d personally rather have the shorter phone and a cutout.
vpn is on the right, yeah. but this is with just one sim:
with two i get another signal strength and wifi calling symbol. it’s already collapsing them when not on the quick setting screen, which is very frustrating.
The Sony form factor is the best on the market IMO. You can hold it in you hand and get more screen in the height.
They’re really no different to a regular iPhone or iPhone pro in terms of size.
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-16-Pro,Sony-Xperia-5-V/phones/12239,12193
agree, i just wish they kept a model like the Z* Compact around.
What’s the use case for microSD slots on phones these days anyway?
If it’s (just) to avoid paying Google or Apple storage fees, you can work around that by buying one or several HDDs to keep at home and sync stuff over the local network, possibly even build a server and access your stuff remotely.
I really don’t understand the need for that much space on the go, though. Are you watching entire series on your phone?
“just”, I think not giving money to Apple or Google anything is a perfectly good reason alone to want expandable storage.
Phone manufacturers charge a massive premium for more storage on a phone, storage which is then lost if the phone dies. A microSD card can be moved around and they cost little.
Not everyone has a home server, in fact a very very small percentage do and being able to store their photos and what-not on a microSD card is very valuable. The freedom to add more storage is a good thing to have. Most people can understand an SD card, but not how to setup an entire home server with syncing etc, let alone exposing that to the web to access it anywhere. It also costs money to run, a microSD card doesn’t.
The only reason we don’t have expandable storage or a 3.5mm port anymore is: money. They want to sell you that cloud service, upcharge you for more internal storage and make you buy their bluetooth earbuds.
I hope you’re not suggesting that people store all of their photos and movies and stuff on their phones SD card and SD card only……
SD cards are absurdly volatile and prone to corruption.
I understand all of that and I agree with you. Not wanting to pay monthly storage fees is perfectly reasonable too. I know I did everything to avoid giving Google any money for storage.
But microSD slots on phones aren’t coming back, and manufacturers are giving you 512GB of internal storage at most, so we need to move on with the times.
I don’t have a home server (yet) either, but I do have 2 TB disks I use to store all the important stuff I want to save forever. Nothing lives on my phone so I’m fine with 128GB.
Local syncing can be done just by installing Syncthing or Omnisend, and everything gets transferred through your home Wi-Fi. No need for complicated setups. I mentioned home servers as an example but you certainly don’t need one.
MicroSD cards also die so I don’t know why you used that as a slight against internal phone storage. You should always have backups.
Storage is dirt cheap these days, it makes no sense to hinder yourself buying niche phones, often at inflated prices, just for a feature that is easily worked around. In my opinion.
You also have to remember to have that adapter with you
An issue shared with the headphones themselves
I just leave the adapter plugged into the headphones. Then there’s nothing extra to manage.
I have like a dozen pairs of headphones
The adapters are dirt cheap, buy doezen of them
No thank you.
If you need to plug the headphones into the adapter, you can just leave them plugged in after disconnecting from the phone
This way, the headphones almost become ones with USB-C connectors than auxiliary barrels.
You can find adapters that can charge while still having a 3.5mm back
I use one of those daily and god they’re all terrible. They’re huge and they all break really easily. My phone is fucking huge, just give me a built in headphone jack!
fast charging / USB-PD may not work, and 3.5mm media controls may not pass through properly
I disagree about this being a good solution. USB-C is not meant to take the strain of being used as an audio port when being used in the go so there is risk of damaging the port while a headphone jack is more stable and allows the plug to rotate. Plus I don’t want to have a dingle I can forget when in a rush.
Plus I don’t want to have a dingle I can forget when in a rush.
Just have the dongle permanently attached to your earbuds like it’s a part of the cable.
Awesome solution. Remove the port that everything used to have and make consumers buy adapters. I have like 5 headphones. Should I go buy an adapter for each one? Not to mention that I can easily fix a headphone cable but if a 3.5 to usb-c adapter breaks, it basically becomes junk.
you use all five every week?
I use them and that’s more than reason enough to want a reliable, small, cheap, jack that literally has no downsides and lets me use my devices how I want to use them.
Unless you want to use them with a device that doesn’t have a headphone jack.
They should make cases with the adapter built in, the way they used to (still do?) for external battery packs.
Or just put the port in the phone.
It’s really a small inconvenience, but using an adapter would mean I’d be prone to misplace it when I use my headphones on anything else, so it hardly makes anything better
The reason for not using a headphone jack is making it simpler for the manufacturer, one less connector to handle which also limits how slim a phone can be.
I’m not saying this is good for the consumer, but there are reasons for integrating the functionality into the USB-C port.
For $700 I’m not interested in compromising my own convenience for theirs.
Then you’re going to have to go and start your own phone company. Good luck to you, let us know when your phone comes out.
Fair, though the fact doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
If you want easily replaceable parts and a system that can unlock the bootloader for example, your argument can be made for 99% of phones on the market. The more requirements you add, the smaller the scope gets until there are no devices left to choose from.
We were doing perfectly fine 10 years ago and manufacturing has only gotten more advanced, the only real reason the 3.5mm port was removed is because Apple wanted to sell people their AirPods. That’s literally it. The rest of the manufacturers soon followed suit when they realised how many people were buying AirPods.
one less connector to handle which also limits how slim a phone can be.
The headphone jack is 3.5mm. iPhones are ~7.5mm thick, more than double. The smallest phone available on the market is 4.2mm.
These points were all disproved long ago. The jack is a the same thickness as the display.
The reason is because BT headphones have a much higher margin, and need to be replaced every few years because of the battery (if not already replaced because they were lost or damaged).
It’s just a dumb cash grab.
This would make sense if the only Bluetooth headphones that worked with the phone were made by the same company, but alas, that’s not how it works.
The reason they don’t have a headphone jack anymore is because it’s easier to make without it, saves money, has a built in replacement in BT, and people overwhelmingly love BT headphones due to being wireless.
It’s not hard to manufacture a headphone jack. We’ve been doing it since the 80s. Probably costs them a penny BOM.
I have a tablet that came with a C to 3.5 adapter and it worked well enough for a bit but soon enough it was only intermittently allowing the headphone connection to work, with a message about the port being dirty or something. Yet I could go right from unplugging that and putting the charger in and it worked fine.
There’s just no substitute for a dedicated port, especially when it barely takes up any room
That means the audio still goes through another DAC, lowering the sound quality, compared to an analog 3.5 jack. Also, who wants to further risk wearing out\vreaking their charge port, jack inputs almost seem like they can’t break.
Technically it only goes through 1 dac, not “another one”. But still, yeah, your phone’s dac is most likely a lot better than the one on a $10 adapter. However, the usb-c spec does allow an analog audio signal passthrough. Whether that’s available or not depends on the phone I guess.
Too bad LG got out of the phone biz. They had the best dacs and some good phones.
Damn right. LG G5 for example was a pretty interesting concept that could’ve evolved into something cool.
Not having a headphone jack is just a slap in the face from a company whose whole image is supposed to be longevity and eco-friendly.
No one has been using aux cable mobile headphones for the past 10 years. Headphone jack is e-waste at this point. bluetooth audio is great and if you really want to be a boomer you can use the usb C headphones.
Headphone jack is e-waste
you can use the usb C headphones
What the absolute fuck are you talking about? What am I supposed to do with the dozen wired headphones I already have? Some of them decades old? Throw them in the garbage? Sounds real eco-friendly.
bluetooth audio is great
It is. We had it on phones since before the original iPhone. No one wants to take that away.
Problem is BT headphones last 2 years then they go in the garbage because the batteries are dead. How eco-friendly is that!?
Problem is BT headphones last 2 years then they go in the garbage because the batteries are dead. How eco-friendly is that!?
My 7 years old bluetooth headphone would disagree.
It is. We had it on phones since before the original iPhone. No one wants to take that away.
And no one except a vocal minority want to keep it. There are a lot on data on that, and manufacturer make their decision on that data.
But lets ignore that, and let’s take my viewpoint as a customer. I don’t want a port I have no use for. I don’t want a DAC I have no use for. I don’t want the extra weight that comes with them.
My needs conflict with yours, so what’s the only way to make both of us somewhat happy? That’s by making the 3.5mm jack an addon, which is what any manufacturer that does not focus on music listening would do.
You can use your dozen wired headphones you already have with a $10 usb-c -> 3.5mm adapter.
Tried that. Gets lost real fast. But thanks “freedom advocate”.
Tried taking better care of your things? I’ve still got mine that came with my pixel 3 and my iPhone 11 Pro.
Okay so now this is my fault. Do you know how many adapters I lost before I needed one?
Yes if they’ve lasted decades thats their job done. Now people are buying usb C headphones and there is no need to continue to support decades old standards. The ewaste from a pair of headphones is tiny so its not worth fretting over.
Also BT headphones last longer than 2 years. Mine are 1st gen samsung buds and going on 5 years at this point and still hold enough charge to listen to music during my work day. If im going to be using them all day I have 1 in and 1 charging in the case and then I can easily have music for 10+ hours on a 5 year old device. If I threw them away today I would consider them to have not been ewaste.
how else are you supposed to connect it to cars that weren’t made yesterday?
You have these usb-c to mini jack adapters. They are like 5 to 10eu. They are small enough to keep them attached to your jack headphone. It works perfectly for me.
I think it is better to view the usb-c plug as ‘one protocol to rule them all’. If you do so, it makes quite some sense.
I’ve never had one of those actually work…
Every adapter I had was broken after a year or less. I imagine if you keep them attached to your phone, they’ll break even faster. Do these adapters exist with a 90° angle which might help preventing broken cables?
Not really in the spirit of reducing waste.
Honestly feels criminal with how bloated companies have made these phones yet they cheap out on a headphone jack.
“Modularity” but still no headphone jack, couldn’t I just have a backplate with a big bump on it to accommodate a 3.5mm jack?
Big? The headphone jack is not large enough to protrude from a cell phone chassis. Any company telling you they can’t fit it is just lying to sell you BT headphones.
What about the internal connectors of the headphone jack?
What about em?
I’m assuming they are removing the headphone jack cause the internal components take up too much space. I can’t imagine these companies removing the jacks cause they cost too much money.
You’re vastly overestimating the space required for a 3.5mm jack, and the reasons for its removal.
The jack takes up some internal space, but not much at all. The components required internally like the DAC chip are insignificant. It is a potential source of water ingress, but that can be mitigated and has been done many times before.
The reason for removal is two fold, first you simply don’t have to deal with any of the above, so from an engineering perspective it’s always easier to not do something. The second, and most important, **is to sell wireless headphones. **
You’ll notice that Fairphone came out with their own earbuds at the same time they removed the headphone jack. You could of course use Bluetooth headphones with the Fairphone 1, 2, and 3, but you weren’t forced to think about it and could just use your existing headphones. Removing the jack ads inconvenience and breaks user habit, causing people to re-evaluate their headphones and consider a new purchase, which the manufacturer just happens to have and likely in a bundle deal.
Apple, Google, and Samsung have seen huge uplift in earbud sales with the removal of the jack. So the anger of some power users is of no consequence to them. Seeing Fairphone follow in this behaviour what’s disappointing.
I made the mistake of believing that Fairphone is an enthusiast company, like the Framework of phones maybe. There is some overlap, sure, with the repair-ability aspect and available parts and schematics, but that’s about it.
Other than that, FP wants to be a mainstream brand, the eco-friendly Samsung or Apple; the power users can get shafted with their audio jacks for all they care. While Framework has actual hardware modularity and release updated HW modules so you don’t buy the whole device again for an upgrade.
Looking at FP’s financial statements, I get the impression they aren’t doing too hot lately, so I get it if they need bigger margins to continue operating. Just don’t be a fucking hypocrite and lie about the reason of the jack removal ffs.
I was just hoping a phone like fairphone would give me the option to buy a small module or something to let me do it.
Yes, yes there’s adapters … yes, yes, you don’t need to use it … I understand. I just want it.
You’d ultimately be sacrificing battery size for that Aux jack you hardly use. For most that’s not worth it
I mean … you don’t have to tell me that my opinion isn’t popular, it’s demonstrable. My opinion is statistically insignificant.
There’s a plethora of other things I’d give up like have a slighter bigger phone or a worse camera or wireless charging… I’d also trade those for an SD card slot but no one agrees with me and it’s just something I need to live with.
Not really, no. There are even people that have been able to ADD a headphone jack to iphones that don’t have one.
I never use wired headphones even though I have a jack in my phone. But I have never bought a phone without a jack and probably never will.
Ipersonally think it’s user hostile to remove the jack and also goes directly agains the green profile Fairphone wants to have.
For the amount of space a earphone jack takes it really doesn’t make sense for them to include it, when you can just use a cheap adaptor cable
“For the amount of space it takes to include a second speaker or second camera it doesn’t really make sense when you can just plug in an external one”
You sound like an idiot.
I can buy a phone from HMD that’s more repairable, more modular, and has sustainable features.
Fairphone has been a busted flush since they ditched the headphone jack. It’s just the most obvious sign amongst many they started making landfill phones.
Resorting to insults really?
3.5mm Aux takes up a shit load of space to connect 4 analog wires. If a phone has Aux it should at the very least be 2.5mm.
It makes no sense to me why you can’t just use an adapter.
More battery > Redundant analog cable most people don’t use anyway.
I might be a idiot as you say, but the people at Fairphone don’t seem to be because they ditched AUX as they should have
Having yet another thing to keep charged
a usb port is far easier to break
I hate earbuds, I want my same old over the ear $15 sony headphones that last for yearsBT is just another thing to fuss with for no apparent benefit, I have an assortment of BT crap that won’t connect consistently.
Whatever convenience BT might offer is negated by the time wasted learning the intricacies of the ever changing APPs [software]Still an idiot.
Probably not a popular thing to say on here, but I think you’ve lost the battle for the earphone jack. It probably just requires way too much real estate to be practical on a modern day cell phone.
Exactly this, that’s a lot of space taken up to connect what 4 analog wires?
That’s insanity when a AUX to Usb-C converter does the job
USB-C requires a lot of space for charging, data transfer etc.
Let’s remove it too and make phones rely on wireless charging instead.
It absolutely does not. That’s just the stupid propaganda companies distribute to make people buy wireless earbuds.
It absolutely does not require too much space. And you can still buy phones with headphone jacks, just not any of the (ironically) higher end models because OEMs know they can push their first party bluetooth headphones to these customers.
Honestly, I don’t really get the people who complain about the lack of 3.5mm jack on a smartphone. If you’re looking for quality you’re more likely to get better quality out quality USB-C headphones than quality 3.5mm headphones due to the USB-C headphones picking up less noise and having its own DAC (which is probably better than the phone DAC that 3.5mm would use).
EDIT: I would’ve been surprised if this take wasn’t controversial. But I guess it’s a good example how the fediverse is not a leftist echo chamber. You have a loud minority complaining about not being able to use a century old technology that the vast majority in the mobile space has moved away from and any compromise on what you want is unacceptable. That’s about as conservative as you can get.
What about the simplicity?
I don’t follow? If you mean simplicity in terms of ease of use you might as well use BT headphones as you don’t have to worry about any wire management. Ease of use is the main reason BT headphones are the go to for most people. No carefully packing the wires so it won’t break, no accidental wiring mess or anything wire related. You just turn them on (which for most in-ear ones just means taking them out of the case), stick them to your ear and you’re good to go.
If you meant anything else by simplicity you need to expand that idea.
I never have to charge my wired headphones.
Nor do I have to buy new batteries or new headphones when they die.
Fair enough, feel free to buy USB-C headphones then.
Edit: Time for the real reply.
I never have to charge my wired headphone.
But you still have to charge your phone. When I charge my phone I also charge my headphones. Most wireless headphones notify you in advance when they’re running low, in my experience enough in advance to not run out before charging again. And finally, charging even once a day is still less overhead than having to manage wires every single time you use the headphones.
Nor do I have to buy new batteries or new headphones when they die
Yeah, you only buy new headphones when the wire gets damaged because that one time you didn’t take good enough care of the wire. I personally had to buy a new set of headphones every year because I’m bad with wires. I’d either store them poorly because I was in a hurry or they’d get stuck on something and get yanked. My first BT headphones lasted me 5 years before starting to have noticeable battery issues and then I still used them for another 3 years before the battery was so dead it wouldn’t live my daily commute.
overall my response boils down to “just use wired then” because the arguments are silly personal preference arguments and the wider consumer market has already decided that wireless is better. But if you want wired nothing is stopping you from getting USB-C wired headphones.
No consumer decided it would be better without it, there’s literally no reason to defend it’s removal. It doesn’t exist because the phone companies wanted to sell their wireless earbuds, that’s it. Anything else they tell you is bullshit.
Why are you trying to justify not having it? You can still use your wireless buds if you want if the port exists, you can still use your USB-C earphones or adapter if you’d like. It can exist in harmony along with other features, like it did for decades before capitalism called for more profits.
Why aren’t you complaining about the removal of a keyboard? Or the removal of SD card slots? Or the removal or the IR light? Or the notification light? or something else that used to be there but isn’t now. Why is the 3.5mm port so special it deserves constant complaining about almost A DECADE LATER? Why must you be these grumpy old men who can’t fucking move on with the times.
I don’t really care if the port is there or not, I’m just fed up with the constant whining about it. It’s gone, the ship has sailed. The majority are more than happy to use wireless headphones, 3.5mm is a niche in the mobile space. There are alternatives if you really like wired headphones. What makes 3.5mm such fucking hill to die on? Nothing. It’s just petty conservatism of people unwilling to move on with the times.
In addition to @timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works: I don’t need pairing, I don’t have to deal with bad reception, it’s harder to loose wired ones and even if I loose them, new ones cost a fraction of bt ones. Also I still have some wired ones. The simplicity of simply plugging them in and it just works is something really abstract to alternatives.
Okay? Literally nothing you said applies to USB-C headphones. Except for this part:
The simplicity of simply plugging them in and it just works is something really abstract to alternatives.
What about the price is simultaneous charging?
You are completely and utterly wrong. I’m pretty sure that a $700 phone’s dac is better than what you can find on a $5 dongle from god knows where. Also, by design there should be no “noise” or “interference” causing issues with the internal dac. If there is, you bought an extremely shitty device.
You know you’ve got not argument when you have to compare a $700 dollar phone to a $5 dongle for your argument to even make sense.
First of all, I seriously doubt any $700 phone without a 3.5mm port is going to have a decent DAC, because there’s no reason for it. In those phones the DAC is used primarily for phone calls. If those phones had a a 3.5mm port and they were flagship phones then maybe they would have higher quality DACs in them, but then they’d also cost more. And secondly, I wasn’t talking about some cheap $5 dongle, I specifically said quality headphones.
You know you’ve got not argument when you have to compare a $700 dollar phone to a $5 dongle for your argument to even make sense.
Oh, so I should buy $100 dongles then? lol Everyone’s argument about the dongles is that they’re super cheap, that’s why I made the comparison.
In those phones the DAC is used primarily for phone calls.
Oh really? And how exactly do you think that the phone is generating the audio that comes through its speaker when you’re doing anything else? Like listening to music, videos, etc? Does your phone really not make a single sound apart from the audio in phone calls?
I wasn’t talking about some cheap $5 dongle, I specifically said quality headphones
headphone =/= dongle
The dongle is what you connect TO the headphone. Regardless, be more specific then. What’s the one you recommend? Should I buy $50 dongles then and keep them attached to my headphones? Since I use 4/5 of them does that mean that it’s ok in your opinion that I now need to spend $250 in dongles instead of just having a tiny, cheap, reliable jack on my $700 phone?
How much more specific do I need to be when I explicitly say “USB-C headphones”? What do you think USB-C stands for?
You could’ve done a single web search yo find that you can buy wired headphones that go straight into the USB-C port.No dongle required. But you’re too busy foaming from the mouth like a rabid dog to even understand what I said.
Well, you do need to be specific because like 99% of headphones terminate in a 3.5mm jack or a quarter inch jack. You were referring to a vert very limited subset of headphones.
It’s honestly kinda dumb to buy a headphone, which only needs an analogue voltage signal to work, that terminates in usb-c. Specially considering that there are still loads of devices that don’t have that port. Even if a computer has it, it’s likely that it only has 1 or 2 of them which might already be in use. For example, my work laptop has 2 usb-c and I’m using one of them to charge it and the other to connect a monitor.
It’s too bad they dont ship to Canada. I’m in the market for a new phone and would seriously consider this.
The state of mobile phone market in Canada is so frustrating. Not only is our market dominated by 3 players who refuse to actually compete with each other, but we miss out on half the cool phones that the rest of the world gets too.
Clove Technology resells to outside the EU
But also consider potential carrier compatibility issues with importing
FP would be a good choice for Graphene.
Unfortunately Graphene have said they will only use pixels (or potentially their own phone in the future) because no other phones have the Titan M2 security chip.
It’s a shame though, because I’d love to have Graphene on it.
Yea but with the recent news (see his Mastodon) he’s looking for other vendors.
Problem is, it is not IP68 rated, which is a dealbreaker for someone with an active lifestyle; especially since I sometimes manage to get water even into my IP68 phones. It would be good if they made a Pro model or just made the regular model more expensive since I will gladly pay for privacy and quality on a device that is on me at all times. For now I will stick to my Pixel 9 Pro.
There are those waterproof bag things. I wouldn’t trust the IP rating on a phone.
Yeah no one should trust IP ratings on phones because unless they cover water damage in their warranty - which none do - the company doesn’t even trust their own IP rating.
I always shake my head when I read about people taking their phones in the shower, in the pool, etc. IP ratings degrade over time as well.
I just want them to make a true flagship phone. I personally wouldn’t mind paying extra for a more ethical phone, if it had all the bells and whistles and wasn’t half obsolete straight out of the box.
What features would that include that the phone doesn’t already have? I’m currently an iPhone user, but I’m looking to move to a more open source alternative.
Better SOC and cameras. If it has to last 5+ years these have to be very good on release date.
better cpu, 2 sim slots, a programmable button cause this dumbass launcher switch is a joke, at least 5000mah battery, at least a sceen mount fingerprint reader or even a working face recognition like in pixel phones.
a 2 year old motorola phone has all of these for some reason, for only 300 bucks. i can pay 40 bucks for a battery change every 4 years, thats still a better deal to be honest.
Wireless charging
A big problem they have is that they have to rely on Qualcomm for security updates, and the flagship chips simply don’t get 8+ years of support. Fairphone uses Qualcomms IOT chips, which come with much longer support.
Snapdragon 7s Gen3 is a pretty decent chipset. Decent display too. 8GB RAM is a bit on the low side. Camera is all about how good processing is. It’s not that crazy expensive if all works well and considering what their goal is.
I’m on an S10e with only 6GB of RAM and it’s still running smoothly. If it was still getting security updates I would keep it for way longer, but alas it’s not so I’m going to upgrade to the new fairphone (not thrilled about losing the headphone jack and getting a larger phone, but I support their overall goals so it seems like the best choice for me)
There’s a deGoogled version too!!
I would prefer GrapheneOS (If I can live with the irony of getting a Pixel phone just to deGoogle it…). Sandboxing there is way better. But you lose the Repairability… Gotta check and compare the new EU metrics too.
They are just two different devices.
I not only want a degoogled version but also a secure one. Sadly developing a secure android is rather hard. The Graphene team does it pretty well. Others try it too, but sadly they are not close.
Degoogled version is €50 more, for whatever reason
the reason: support for developers. You can install it yourself to save that amount.
People don’t want to pay for privacy. That’s the real problem with end users. Imagine if more people did so. What a world we could have. Nah. Let’s be cheap AF!
Like Kagi for web searching.
Locking privacy behind a paywall? Sounds like a nightmare.
That’s the real problem with end users.
The real problem with end users is that they buy according to whatever needs corpos inject via advertising.
Because the built in software is usually there because the manufacturer is receiving money from the software company. That’s why consumer devices are always bloated with garbage.
Just an update, I learnt that GrapheneOS developers are ‘aggressive’ towards other FLOSS projects (following comments on other thread, but you can searx grepheneos+controversy and see for yourselves).
So now, I might just prefer an FP6.
I bet PostmarketOS will release for it
Why do you think so? We still don’t have proper support for the Fairphone 4 on pmOS, why’d the 6 be any better?
GraphineOS is more secure
We know GrapheneOS only makes their OS on Pixel phones or whatever their own device will be so it’s moot
Thats because pixels fit the rigid standards, if Fairphone met them they would make a version for them
That would be great but that’s just not the way it is unfortunately
is the bootloader locked with eos?
Is it really de-googled if it still runs Android?
the degoogled roms like eos calyx lineage graphene are not just aosp zero work roms with no gapps inclueded. the devs do work on changing as much google related code as they can even within aosp. nothing is perfect obviously, but im pretty sure there are compatible mobile linux distros even.
love fairphone but i cant go bacl from graphene os. its so nice not having google attacjed to everything.
My 3 greatest wishes are:
Replaceable battery
Replaceable usb charging port
120 watt cahrging
Why do you need 120 watts charging for a phone? Most laptops don’t even support 100w.
deleted by creator
Replaceable battery
40€
Replaceable usb charging port
20€
120 watt cahrging
33W
I love the idea but the price is too high for the chip given that this is designed to be a longevity phone. A chip like the 7s Gen 3 would make the phone sluggish after a couple of years with how unoptimised todays apps are.
The Gorilla Glass 7i and IP55 water resistance are also concerning given that budget Samsung, Xiaomi, etc phones beat this.
However having components of the phone being easily replacable is a great thing.
I think it’s important to remember that the price is higher because they pay their factory workers a living wage and use a combination of recycled and fair materials.
It looks expensive because other phones are cheap, and other phones are cheap because they are exploiting people to make them.
Yeah wow, the problem with the phone that tries to compete with unethical big business is that unethical big entity is cheaper. Who would have thought
Because a weak CPU, weak water resistance, and weak glass don’t make for a long-lasting, sustainable phone.
I like the fact that the parts are easy to replace, but the big manufacturers beat them in other aspects of longevity.
At the cost of the labourers and environment. That’s why the fair one is better in every aspect
a few things i like:
- moments is an interesting concept
- it says you can toggle off gemini ai. this is good
- display goes from 10-120hz for battery
- ultrawide selfie camera
- microsd card slot!
- power button fingerprint scanner, way better than underscreen
Why does The Fairphone (Gen. 6) not have an audio jack?
After some of the criticism that we received about removing the headphone jack from Fairphone 4, we did consider bringing it back for The Fairphone (Gen. 6). However, we realized it would be at the expense of increasing the phone’s dimensions. We also looked into the consumer data and Fairphone 4’s weight and thickness were more of an issue than the lack of a minijack, so we decided to keep the same approach, although it was a difficult decision. We didn’t want to invest in OLED technology for the display and then not have improved the phone’s dimensions and weight. But just like with Fairphone 4 and Fairphone 5, we will still offer an adapter, which has had overall positive user reviews.
“We heard the criticism but decided that no, you would still need an adapter to use headphones, plus a USB-C hub to be able to charge the damn thing while listening to music or watching videos”
Funny how that’s the same excuses that we get for modern laptops terrible design. “We HAVE to make it thinner so there’s no space! You wouldn’t want a laptop that’s not complete shit if it meant it’d also be less thin and breakable, now would you?”
Let me expand, as I usually deal with surveys and population feedback. There’s loud feedback, and there’s statistically significant feedback.
People who want a headphone jack are very loud. They will interject this issue into every feedback opportunity given. They will mention it on the comment sections, forums, q&a sessions, answer their surveys accordingly, etc. That’s all fine and their prerogative.
However, when you look at the statistics. They are unfortunately a very tiny minority of the entire population. They are not statistically significant for decision making. They don’t have the volume to move sales significantly. This sucks, of course, and I personally wouldn’t mind the return of headphone jacks, smaller phones and bigger batteries as a fair trade for thicker phones.
But unfortunately, the vast majority of the market is pre-occupied with other things. The phone screen is too small, the phone weights too much, the phone is too thick, I want to bring my phone to the pool without fear of it breaking, etc. They are not as passionate about it, not like the headphone people are, but they far outnumber them in several orders of magnitude. In the end, if the product doesn’t sell, it won’t matter how much it was worth to a single passionate person. It will sink the company if it doesn’t have mass appeal. Making phones is already an extremely expensive endeavor.
You can get good Bluetooth earbuds for under $50 and a USB-C to AUX dongle for under $15.
The average person is fine with Bluetooth earbuds or an adapter, and audiophiles would not find the inbuilt DAC/amp on a phone to be adequate.
My wired earbuds cost more than ten times that and will probably last me until I retire. The vast majority of those USB-c to 3.5mm adapters are cheap crap that have a worthless DAC and/or fall apart after a short time. I have purchased my wife three such adapters since she decided it was worth it to get a phone without a headphone jack and none of them have been good.
I ended up having to buy her a separate portable music player to use. So thanks for that Google, Apple, and the rest of the greedy shithead OEMs.
how do you charge the phone with a DAC plugged in?
If we revisit the “loud” vs “statistically significant” paradigm, while it is a shame you will not be able to charge the phone with a dac in without buying a specific cable, how often does the average person do so?
so you need a dongle for the DAC, and an additional dongle for charging that is also, if I recall it correctly, violates the USB-C standard. did I understand it correctly?
Sure, for simplicities sake let’s just say it’s impossible.
How many times has the average person needed to do so in a year?
how many times does the average person use wireless charging? Seriously, I haven’t seen anyone do that yet, or know of someone who uses that.
and yet that’s still a major feature in lots of phones
Wirelessly.
Or you switch to your bluetooth buds during a wired charge.
I’m all for audio jacks, but have been using a phone without one for 4 years now, and there are so many options to not be incovenienced.
Also I don’t use my audiophile headphones with the phone at all - DAC on it just isn’t good enough to get most out of then, prefer to use them with my desktop PC amp only.
Wirelessly.
FairPhone doesn’t do wireless charging.
You know why there aren’t more users complaining about this? Because they flat out did not buy the device for that reason (e.g. me). Removing the jack is also extremely hyprocritical coming from a “sustainable” company.
And if it did have it you wouldn’t have bought it either because the company is hypocritical. So why do you care? Why should they care?
The point is, the people who did buy it didn’t care, and the people who care don’t buy. It’s a conundrum. Pair it with performance data of other phones that do have a headphone jack, plus the engineering compromises over other very important features. Then the decision makes sense. You lot aren’t buying phones with headphone jacks either, so it isn’t economically worth it. It’s not like the motor g or the Asus rog phone are breaking sales records just on the headphone jack.
It’s the same story as with small phones. People who aren’t buying phones like to complain about phone size. But then when a small phone is made, no one buys it. Then the people who didn’t buy the phone complain again, because the phone wasn’t perfect for them.
It happens all the time, people are usually very vocal about things that actually don’t drive their decision making.
Why should they care?
Because they should want to capture more customers? Is that really your question?
The point is, the people who did buy it didn’t care
Yeah and how many were those?
Exactly, they want the most amount of customers. But they won’t sacrifice AxB customers to satisfy B customers. They’d be effectively losing customers or breaking even at a higher cost to them.
We know this numbers must have a population of around 180 thousand customers. The known number of fairphones sold across all models so far. Now let’s make assumptions. Let’s suppose that there are 100 people who want headphone jacks and would absolutely buy a fairphone if they came with it, for each user that has advocated for headphone jacks in this thread. You wouldn’t even break 1% of the total number of fairphone sales, just this year (130k).
Again, there’s a difference between wanting something a lot. And actually making decisions based on what we say we want. Fairphone removed the headphone jack on a model that broke sales records for them. Fairphone 5 was heavily criticized for not having a headphone jack. And it is selling comfortably well within their expectations. So obviously the people who stopped buying Fairphones because of the headphone jack weren’t that many actually.
But they won’t sacrifice AxB customers to satisfy B customers.
That’s the kicker. Adding a headphone jack doesn’t mean they have to sacrifice something. They can just do it without having to remove/reduce anything. If adding a jack was really that difficult, something like what you can see in this video wouldn’t be possible.
You have to preeeety gullible to believe their reasons for not adding it. The only reason was that they wanted to sell their bluetooth earbuds, that’s it.
Phone thickness is far from the only consideration. But Ok, you are right. There was space on the iPhone 7. That was also the first water resistant phone. Does this guy phone’s is still IP67 compliant after all the surgery he made. And that was in 2016, when IP67 headphone jacks didn’t exist. Now the phone standard is IP68. There were no IP68 compliant headphone jacks until recently, I think the ASUS Zenfone 12 is the first one.
I think companies won’t bring the headphone jack (a shame, really). But the writing is in the wall, it went away, and phones still sold like hotcakes. While those with headphone jacks aren’t being bought anywhere near the same volume. So the signal is very clear, the effort to add a headphone jack — however little it may be — is not financially worth it. It is a feature that doesn’t drive sales. Period.
What statistics? People buying thin phones over thicker phones doesn’t mean much when that’s almost all that’s being sold nowadays and every phone is trying to be as thin as possible. It seemed to me that 90% of what we’re told people want is actually just what companies want to push on us because it’s cheaper and more profitable.
All the people I know who are average users couldn’t care less about how thin the phone is, two mm more or less doesn’t make any difference. They care about screen size and being able to use it without too much hassle. If they get a phone without an audio jack half of them will just assume that they can’t plug earphones at all. And they are not the ones who will complain. But then, Fairphone isn’t marketed towards average users, so maybe their users have different priorities? Idk
If you ask people what they want, they will tell you they want a phone that has 15 inch screen that looks perfect under the sunlight. But also fits into their pocket. And it has to have a battery that lasts a week, but it must not weight anything at all. But also has to play all the highly graphical games, and also have a professional level camera. It must do so and also last forever and be indestructible.
That phone obviously can’t exist, and a lot of what people want are things that oppose each other from the engineering pov. That’s the point of surveys and market analysis. You don’t just look at what people say, you look at what they do, what they actually buy.
It is true that the other side of marketing is convincing people that what the company is offering is what they would also want to buy. But it is never a guarantee. I mean, look at the Samsung Edge flop. Marketing is not magic, you can’t brainwash 100 million people to buy something they don’t want. Marketing is marrying what the company wants to do in terms of cost cutting and profit maxing, with what the market is actually willing to buy. If people keep buying slop, they will keep selling slop, and they will keep marketing slop to people to convince them they want the slop. To break the circle someone has to stop, and it won’t be the corporations.
People who want a headphone jack […] are unfortunately a very tiny minority of the entire population.
People interested in paying more for fair trade materials and repairable phones are also a very tiny minority of the entire population.
Of course I don’t have any statistic, but I would guess that the proportion of people wanting a Jack is significantly higher in the group of people interested in buying Fairphone that on the general population.In my particular case, I’m still using my Fairphone 3, and I’m not buying a Fairphone again unless it has a Jack.
I don’t have any statistic, but I would guess that the proportion of people wanting a Jack is significantly higher in the group of people interested in buying Fairphone that on the general population.
Fairphone literally does have that statistic. They spent effort to gather that info in order to inform their business decisions. And they report:
We also looked into the consumer data and Fairphone 4’s weight and thickness were more of an issue than the lack of a minijack
Just out of interest, because I too love the jack, then what are you buying in the future?
Motorola or whatever, depends what’s available within budget at the time I need the phone.
Have a look at their impact report. They themselves claim that they don’t spend more than €5 per phone on fair trade or environmental stuff.
You are only paying more for that phone because they are a tiny boutique manufacturer who has to outsource everything. The fair/eco stuff is just fair- and greenwashing.
If you buy a phone because you want to look fair/eco, buy a Fairphone. If you actually really care for fair/eco, get an used phone and donate some money to the correct NGOs or charities.
Have a look at their impact report. They themselves claim that they don’t spend more than €5 per phone on fair trade or environmental stuff.
I’ve looked through their report and I can’t find this info. The only thing I’ve found is a ~€2 bonus per phone to their factory workers, which is only a small fraction of a phones supply chain. Can you provide a more detailed reference supporting your claim?
Read through the whole report, sum up all the money they mention. It comes out to $16 000. Double that for the stuff where they don’t mention money (because they surely would mention anything that costs more than the things they do mention). Double it again, for a safety margin. Double it again, because we are really generous. Now we are at €128 000. Divide that by the number of devices sold in 2024 and you get $1.24. Now add the $1.20 (Page 29) they pay as a living wage bonus and you arrive at $2.44 per device.
And now let’s be super generous and double that guess again, and you end up with the <€5 per device that I quoted above.
The picture becomes clearer when you look at what they say about their fair material usage.
Take for example the FP5 (page 42 & 67). Their top claim here is “Fair materials: 76%”, which they then put a disclaimer next to it, that they only mean that 76% of 14 specific focus materials is actually fair. On the detail page (page 67) they specify that actually only 44% of the total weight of the phone is fairly mined, because they just excluded a ton of material from the list of “focus materials” to push up the number.
The largest part of these materials are actually recycled materials (37% of the 44% “fair” materials). The materials they are recycling are plastics, metals and rare earth elements. That’s all materials that are cheaper to recycle than to mine. You’ll likely find almost identical amounts of recycled materials in any other phone, because it makes economical sense. It’s just cheaper. Since these materials cost nothing extra to Fairphone, we can exclude them from the list, which leaves 1% of actually fair mined material (specifically gold), and 6% of materials that they bought fairwashing credits for.
Also, the raw materials of phones are dirt cheap compared to the end price. The costly part is not mining the materials, but manufacturing all the components.
With only 1% of the materials being fairly mined and only 6% being compensated with credits, you can start to see why in total they spend next to nothing on fair mining/fair credits.
Like I’ve said before- their market is small enough they should be trying to get everyone they can to buy it.
That’s what they’re doing. That’s why they remove the headphone jack in favour for a slimmer, lighter phone. Their market research showed that’s more important to a bigger portion of their customers.
I’ve never met someone that cared about a thinner phone, they’ve been too thin since 2015…
People that want their ducking hradphine jacks? They are everywhere.
This is thing with not understanding how statistics work. The point is that your personal experience is biased.
These people are not passionate about phone thickness. They won’t start or even have conversations about it. Specially since, for the most part, the companies are already catering to their tastes. But, if placed in front of a survey and asked to rank phone features by their importance for their purchase decisions, the overwhelming majority will rank other phones features way above a headphone jack. Most people on the planet are not audiophiles, and the majority of people perceive wires as an annoyance and an inconvenience.
That is the point of surveying and market research. To check with the actual potential buyers what is worth making. Of course it isn’t a guarantee, looking here at the recent flop of the Samsung Edge. But otherwise, a single person’s perception of the market will never be complete or accurate.
Audio jack isn’t an audiophile thing, it’s a “I don’t want to pay 100$ for headphones thing”
As for thickness, it doesn’t increase thickness. It is simply false, someone even retrofitted a whole audio jack into an iphone.
Nobody makes q difference between a 4mm and a 4.5mm phone, even if tgey were feature and price parity.
The reason you are giving here is made up marketing by the phone industry so they can sell earbuds.
Are we forgetting that companies also have their own bias to make the decisions that increase overall profits? They lost buyers (me included) by this change, but they made up the difference by selling higher margin accessories. Companies will only cater to users if it aligns with turning a bigger profit. If adding an anti-feature is better for the bottom line, then that’s how it goes. Enshittification doesn’t happen accidentally, but by pushing the boundaries of what the users tolerate.
Okay, I’m going to ask… why don’t you use wireless?
Edit: some results are in, and the only reasonable answer is better audio quality, although that’s probably no longer true. The rest are fairly weak reasons.
Lol’d at the 10m extension cord though, thanks for that one.
Very strange how mine can somehow fit a 7000mAh battery, dual SIM + SD card slot and a regular jack. Hmm…
Is it repairable only with a screwdriver and parts you can buy from the manufacturer?
That’s a definite advantage of the Fairphone.
I guess, I will find out how mine fares when the need arises. Hasn’t happened in 4.5 years yet.
Are you a Republican? Because that really sounds like “mine works, so fuck everyone else”
Are you a murican? Cuz you really sound like USA is your whole world.
Can anyone recommend this? Is the camera any good?
Basically nobody has this in hand yet. Its lighter (193g) and shorter (156mm) than the previous ones which is nice. Harder glass surface (Corning 7i) so less scratches. Its still thick tho at 9.6mm but i dont mind that. If gsmarena is correct, then they didnt include video output over USBC for some fucking dumb reason this time. Ridiculous.
I was thinking: Online-people have been asking for thicker iPhones and MacBooks in favour of battery for a while now. So I suppose this is that + repairability. I think we as a community could highlight that a bit tbh
Good question. I was just reading the article about it on The Verge, which mentions:
On the back, you’ll find a 50MP main camera and a 13MP ultrawide camera, while the front has a 32MP hole-punch camera for selfies and video calls. That’s a significant step down from the Fairphone 5, which used 50MP sensors on all three of its cameras.
No mention of camera quality, though, as it’s basically a press release post and not a hands-on or review. I wish this would be available in the US for a fair price.
4000x3000 (12MP) is completely fine for a secondary camera imo. 32MP for the front cam is more than enough too. Upwards of 12MP, the denoising and optics are much more important than the resolution.
32 MP is absurdly much, resized down to 10 MP you are not going to see a difference.
Haven’t had an FP6 in my hands yet, but I’ve been using FP since the Fairphone 2, am currently using the FP4 and besides the ethics in sourcing their materials and manufacturing (which they genuinely attempt to provide, and while there is no ethical consumption in capitalism, there are still degrees of fucked-upness.), I do enjoy the repairability, longevity and long-term support. They are also decently supported by de-googled-android and even pure Linux phone operating systems, if you want to experiment there, and come without a lot of bloat that nowadays is ubiquitous with most smartphones.
Do you have a bit of info on these Linux mobile OSs? The FP5 didn’t convince me as a main phone when I needed a new one last year, but if it can take a real Linux distro it could be a cool toy.
Sure - check out this list from the community forums:
https://forum.fairphone.com/t/operating-systems-for-fairphones/11425#heading--fp5
Thank you!
I’m sad that the battery swap requires a screwdriver, but it’s really fine. As long as it’s not glued in I don’t care honestly.
The modular back is cool, specs look nice, lighter and smaller than my FP5 is a great thing, cuz this thing is heavy and the battery is mid.
It looks cool! Good direction I think. Of course I want a headphone jack, but I am learning to live without
If they are all about swappable parts, and being able to upgrade your phone how you want … Shouldn’t this just be a module upgrade… Of the main part? Maybe I don’t understand it … At the very least the old parts should work with the new system right? Unless something major has changed.
headphone jackn’t :(
