It’s not fun interacting with them when they often want to engage in ad hominems. This is why I have no interest in the tankie triad.

  • PhilipTheBucketEnglish
    1•2 days ago

    SoftestSapphic is trans. She was upset about a troll coming into her community and making fun of her identity in a particularly cruel way (likening it to fantasy creatures or a kids’ game or something), and then further upset by the mods of blahaj defending the troll and banning people who criticized them. That’s why she’s angry about it. Honestly, I don’t blame her, it makes perfect sense to me.

    Ada said that she defended Dragonrider for quite a long time even after people started telling her they were encouraging people to self-harm and other objectively horrible behavior, because she felt bad because they were getting “harassed.” Of course, when they did something much more minor to Ada, she suddenly felt they were toxic and had to go.

    I don’t want to have this whole ridiculous debate again. I feel stupid even touching on it to this extent, I just wanted to give you that relevant context. You’re literally celebrating the dbzer0 admins for banning a trans person for trying to voice her objection to the performative and stupid way that trans issues are handled in some segments of Lemmy. In my world, she should be allowed to say that. In yours and dbzer0’s, apparently she should not, because db0 is the arbiter of whether trans issues are being handled correctly, and she is not, and she needs to obey their instructions for what she can and can’t speak up on.

    Also, the “low opinions” db0 is talking about there were:

    I think he’s an obnoxious dickhead

    I remember his username and him being a twat

    He’s a genocide-supporting Zionist radlib

    a goddam stalker

    an angry turbolib who blames the left (and Eugene in particular, for some reason) for the pathetic failure of the corporate-c**k-sucking Democrats

    Do you think those are direct personal insults, which should be handled differently than for example criticism of an instance’s policies or for someone’s specific actions? Good! So do I. Because db0 apparently has some six inch thick rose-colored glasses that get applied to any action that is done by “our good people,” though, they are just “low opinions.”

    Honestly I thought you were smart and well-meaning, just kind of focused on growth of the community and creating positive things. The more I am looking into how dbzer0 does things, the more I think lumping them in with the tankie instances with their admin behavior fits pretty well, and I have no idea why you’re bending over backwards so far to defend them.

    • Blaze (he/him)English
      4•2 days ago

      I don’t want to have this whole ridiculous debate again. I feel stupid even touching on it to this extent, I just wanted to give you that relevant context. You’re literally celebrating the dbzer0 admins for banning a trans person for trying to voice her objection to the performative and stupid way that trans issues are handled in some segments of Lemmy. In my world, she should be allowed to say that. In yours and dbzer0’s, apparently she should not, because db0 is the arbiter of whether trans issues are being handled correctly, and she is not, and she needs to obey their instructions for what she can and can’t speak up on.

      The majority of the users of Blahaj are trans too.

      I remember his username and him being a twat

      PJ himself admitted that being correct

      I mean tbf both of those are at least true

      https://lemmy.world/comment/18435763

      On top of that, the community is called !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com, having this kind of statements regarding the reported power tripping mod is as old as the community.

      When you look at the recent thread about JordanLund (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/48096338), you see things like

      It’s been a couple of weeks since @jordanlund@lemmy.world was in here defending genocide. I almost missed the ugly fucking zio. Automatic PTB for anything he touches with his scummy little fingers.

      You commented below it without seeing any issue.

      I’ll happily advocate for the Palestinians’ rights to kill as many of the IDF as they can manage. It won’t solve their problems, but they’ve got every right to do it, and nothing else that I can see will solve any of their problems other than better leadership in the US.

      I think you’ve probably understood me pretty well, what you decide about me is up to you just like it is for everyone else.

      Don’t go to lemmy.world, it’s a silly place, for this among some other reasons.

      https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/48096338/19830549

      What has changed since then?

      Honestly I thought you were smart and well-meaning, just kind of focused on growth of the community and creating positive things. The more I am looking into how dbzer0 does things, the more I think lumping them in with the tankie instances with their admin behavior fits pretty well, and I have no idea why you’re bending over backwards so far to defend them.

      As I mentioned in a previous comment you never replied to (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49728632/20305246)

      I’m am going to be honest with you, I didn’t expect you to make this kind of comments

      Cool! Now accuse him of caring way too much about politics, and getting in heated debates about it like a LOSER, speaking as you are from your lemmy.ml address. That’ll make perfect sense too.

      Also, not sure why it’s not okay for dbzer0 to have a “our users” stance while you broadly categorize all .ml users as “losers”

      You are scrutinizing all dbzer0 mod actions to put them in the worst way possible, while nothing is new:

      • YPTB has always had some aggressive comments towards the reported power tripper
      • The dbzer0 stance on the drag matter is known, nothing new here
      • the pro / anti AI seems to be dbzer0 mods banning people who downvote their content on their communities, seems quite common across the platform

      If !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com seems too oriented for you, feel free to reanimate !modabuse@lemmy.sdf.org or create another community. That would be interesting, to be honest.

      • PhilipTheBucketEnglish
        2•2 days ago
        • I strongly object to silencing trans voices on trans issues, even if there are other trans people who feel differently or even if they are okay with the silence. People are tribal, cis or trans, and of course there is a self-selection effect, where people on blahaj are in favor of the blahaj administration for the same reason people on lemmy.ml or Hexbear are in favor of their instances’ administration
        • The 196 mods were clearly wrong. I took Ada’s side, to the extent I cared about that whole thing, just because I’m in general opposed to the "boss"es of whatever environment telling the users what to do. It sounds like Ada was doing the bulk of the moderation, anyway, and the mods were just there to give orders but shirking the actual work involved.
        • I definitely wasn’t in favor of shitting on JordanLund in that way. I don’t even like Jordan, but the consistent effort to paint him as a Zionist (along with me, FlyingSquid, PugJesus, and more or less anyone who is opposed to a certain noisy contingent of users) and the wild gross personal attacks are not at all something I am in favor of. I think you can probably find me standing up for him against some similar abuse if you look further back, maybe not, but in that individual message I mostly just kind of didn’t want to get involved in it and wanted to clarify my Israel stance and peace out. Look and see if you can find me calling someone a “twat” in anger, or talking about their grubby sticky fingers, anything like that, instead of just it being in a message I’m responding to. You might be able to, but as much as I can manage, I try to get heated about issues and events and not about people’s personal characteristics.
        • I didn’t respond to your message just because it was long and it was going to take some doing to look up all the links and unpack it all, and I’d already done what I thought about things more or less to death. If you really want me to, I can go back and take a look, I’m not trying to ignore it but it was a long argument with a lot of repetition anyway so hopefully it’s understandable. What the hell, I’ll take a look later today I think.
        • I wasn’t implying people who care about politics on whatever side are losers. I was saying that people are accusing PugJesus of being a loser because he cares and argues about politics, and lemmy.ml is the glassiest of glass houses as far as that accusation.
        • I had no real problem with dbzer0 up until a couple of days ago, I actually generally liked their instance because it seemed sensible. Some of the mods’ politics I don’t agree with but that is par for the course and normal. Now having observed some of their decisions at close range I don’t feel that way. I did think about “migrating” to some other place for the topics I care about that have communities like YPTB on dbzer0, but just like in the 196 case, it doesn’t really work entirely that way, and anyway if they continue to let me say what I want to say in YPTB, I probably won’t really care beyond just voicing my opinion on it all.
        • Blaze (he/him)English
          4•1 day ago

          I wasn’t implying people who care about politics on whatever side are losers. I was saying that people are accusing PugJesus of being a loser because he cares and argues about politics, and lemmy.ml is the glassiest of glass houses as far as that accusation.

          Ok, that makes more sense.

          I did think about “migrating” to some other place for the topics I care about that have communities like YPTB on dbzer0, but just like in the 196 case, it doesn’t really work entirely that way, and anyway if they continue to let me say what I want to say in YPTB, I probably won’t really care beyond just voicing my opinion on it all.

          It’s up to you. I think it would be good to have another !yptb community that’s not satire or a one person creation.

          You could potentially enforce more respectful discussions there.

          • PhilipTheBucketEnglish
            1•24 hours ago

            You could potentially enforce more respectful discussions there.

            I actually lean more towards the side of “let the people talk.” Some direct personal insults I feel like are maybe worth keeping away (I read this comment and was going to voice my agreement but then when I got to the “moron” part that instantly made me conclude, welp buddy, that’s not productive). Mostly though I think the main asset of an alternative mod feedback community is that the dbzer0 admins are fine doing deletions and bans from YPTB for various reasons including “trying to stir up instance drama over our genAI policies, which are not up for debate.” UP-FOR-DEBATING THE POLICIES IS LITERALLY THE PURPOSE OF THE COMMUNITY. But, as soon as someone comes into it and disagrees with the dbzer0 admins on some issue, they often decide it is some particular category of not allowed debate, and ban the person.

            There are some other examples on that page that to me are equally stupid, but that one takes the cake to me. If I were to make a competing YPTB community, I think that’s the most important rule I would change, personal attacks being allowed or not is a lot less crucial than that to me.

            • Blaze (he/him)English
              4•23 hours ago

              This is a direct consequence of having that community part of dbzer0.

              A community is still subject to the rules of the instance hosting it.

              A potential alternative would be to have the alternative community on an instance with a very few rules, but there’s none that I know of at the moment.

              Israel, drag, AI, every topic would still come up in the comments of a new community, and the mods of that new community would probably have to take a stance on those, or just see endless slapfights in the comments

              • PhilipTheBucketEnglish
                -1•22 hours ago

                An instance whose rules include “the rules are not up for debate” has no business hosting a community for critique of moderation. I would actually expand that to say that it’s pretty silly to have that rule in the first place, regardless of what communities you’re hosting, but it does seem to be a pretty popular viewpoint here for some reason. I’m legitimately surprised to hear it from an instance that’s described as anarchist. The .ml instances are at least more open with their political alignments and then consistent with them in their moderation in practice.

                Scratch an anarchist and an authoritarian bleeds, I guess, lol

                • Blaze (he/him)English
                  4•19 hours ago

                  I understand why an instance staff wouldn’t want to have posts questioning instance guidelines every week.

                  Interestingly enough, in the case of anti AI bans, that topic was discussed on https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/49185248?scrollToComments=true , and it seems like both the mod and the person iniating the request found a way

                  So no, it’s not really “Scratch an anarchist and an authoritarian bleeds”

                  • Eugene V. Debs' GhostEnglish
                    3•13 hours ago

                    Phillip hates that db0 isn’t a carbon copy of his failed instance, therefore we’re somehow not anarchists for not tolerating the intolerant.

                • JennykichuEnglish
                  -1•20 hours ago

                  Scratch an anarchist and an authoritarian bleeds, I guess, lol

                  Literally this entire instance. Don’t get me wrong there are worse places out there but its basically Lord of the Flies up in this place. I am very sure nobody in charge is over the age of 21.

                  I am actually not like you and I left this instance months ago because I wanted more moderation but it’s clear these “anarchists” are ok with harassment and sexism as long as it is targeted towards who they perceive to be enemies. They have zero consistency in applying their “rules” and they hide behind “anarchism” to justify the same childish behavior they criticize other instances of doing.

                  • PhilipTheBucketEnglish
                    -2•19 hours ago

                    Literally this entire instance. Don’t get me wrong there are worse places out there but its basically Lord of the Flies up in this place. I am very sure nobody in charge is over the age of 21.

                    Yeah. 100%. Well… there are plenty of 18-year-olds running around the world whose chronological age is a lot older. But yes. It actually mostly doesn’t read to me as malicious from this instance, it just feels like people who have never experienced being in a collaborative circumstance where they have to get along with people who they don’t see eye to eye with or have real friction with and they have to cope with it. Or they have never been in some kind of environment where one person is “in charge” but also has to earn respect of people. Like their whole concept is “I’ve got the mod buttons, you do not, so shut the fuck up, this is what’s what” and they’ve never experienced the aftermath when you do that to people who have ability to push back in turn.

                    I mean at the end of the day it’s just a stupid web site, but yes in my opinion being able to have these communication tools and have them function well is important. Maybe I’m the weird one. I do think it matters.

                    these “anarchists” are ok with harassment and sexism as long as it is targeted towards who they perceive to be enemies. They have zero consistency in applying their “rules” and they hide behind “anarchism” to justify the same childish behavior they criticize other instances of doing.

                    Also absolutely. 100%. Them laughing at SoftestSapphic when she’s trying to give some pretty pointed feedback on treatment of trans issues, and then banning her for being “pissy” / “shitty” because of it, really rubbed me the wrong way. I didn’t like that at all. And then yes the hypocrisy of doing that while flopping around like a soccer player moaning about “abuse” because people gave downvotes to some of their precious content, is just extra icing on the bratty-adolescent cake.